I have just turned down a job

I was offered the job without even attending an interview, in all honesty before I left engineering I was an applications engineer for Ansys

From what I can gather the agency have sent my CV and done nothing else

Yet I awoke to a snotty mail this morning stating they had worked really hard on my behalf to secure the role on my behalf with their key client , a client so key I might add that at least half a dozen other agencies had advertised the same role.

On top of this it was worded far less friendly than the earlier niceties,

Is this normal?

Funny.

This is almost soft and cuddly for a freelance recruiter.

It is hard to explain with words, I would instead recommend a few films. Jaws, American Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, The Talented Mr Ripley.

Lost commission, they’ll get over it. Sounds like your skills are in demand, so should be in a strong position to negotiate rather than leaving it to someone else.

I’m pretty scathing about recruiters but will add they’re not all bad.

He/she is probably hacked off as you lost them their commission of between 15 – 30% of your first year salary, the percentage depending on how much you would have been paid

If you take a position that your a commodity to be bought, sold or traded you won’t be far wrong. It’s a mercenary business.

I do hear good stuff about recruiters for senior posts or head hunters who actually need to see you f2f rather than working at distance.. They do seem to care a little more…

Not on at all, and I worked in recruitment. Yes, they’ll be annoyed as it’s a lost placement, so a bit of a loss of face with the client and a bit of lost commission, but I’m no sure that warrants an arsey mail. Assuming you’ve done things properly (told them why you’ve turned it down, given them a call to explain, not just disappeared, etc.) then I think it’s somewhat out of order.

I will however bite on

From what I can gather the agency have sent my CV and done nothing else

. They’ve also won the client in the first place, then built up a detailed enough knowledge of them and a sufficient point of trust that the client will take candidate from the agency without interview, that is not an easy thing to do. They’ve also, presumably, talked to you about the role, vetted you, and gone through a process before sending the CV and ultimately securing you the job.

But still, arsey e-mails are bad practice and don’t help an industry that really doesn’t need much help with bad PR.

Unfortunately there are a lot of bad recruitment consultants out there who just see candidates as fees, add no value to the process and get really snotty when you don’t do what they want. Very few barriers to entry, a propensity for the pushiest to be the most successful and the fact that clients will take good candidates from bad Rec cons means that any idiot can set up and often be successful.

I spent 10 years as a Rec con recruiting for senior finance & director level roles and was dismayed by much of the behaviour I saw from competitors and some colleagues.

That being said, a good recruitment consultant that listens, adds value and consults with both clients and candidates is worth their weight in gold. There are plenty of them out there, it’s just a that’s there’s far more bad ones than good and it takes a while to find them

My recent experience of the majority of recruitment agencies has been poor. As has been said above most of them view you as a walking talking paycheque and nothing more.

A recruitment agency has just got my wife a great job.

They picked up her CV on Reed, put it to a company she thought was out of her reach, and didn’t even know they where recruiting, and got her an interview. And she was offered a job.

This all happened within 10 days of uploading her CV.

I was surprised it seems the role is listed by at least 4 different agencies and it seems once they all get a sniff of who’s hiring they list the job .I had been approached by another for the same role, I pointed this out when I said another firm had put my CV forward.

Their reply was that they may be able to negotiate a better rate, essentially saying to the same company, we have the same guy but we want more money?

The reason I’m turning it down is in fact that I have been offered a couple of other roles in more development based roles rather than just problem finding

The joys of preferred supplier lists means that often a job gets released to 4 or 5 agencies at the same time, hence all the ads appearing the same day. Most agencies really don’t like this set up at all but it’s a client driven thing and very much a case of doing it like that or not working with the client at all.

Re. the better rate, some agencies have better rates with a client that others and so there may be some agencies that have more room for negotiation on pay rates. However, it’s a pretty ropey way to work and a quick “thanks but no thanks” when the second agency approach you is a sensible way of dealing with it.

Is this normal?

Hired (for a professional position) without an interview? No. 🙂

In fact I find it difficult to believe.

I have only ever had two jobs both were formal interviews and neither through recruitment type agencies so this was my wonderment in being given a job without.

Reed has just helped me secure my new job.
They were absolutely fantastic. I submitted my CV online somewhere for a different role and Reed found it. They contacted me and spoke me through the job, the company and the processes. Fantastic communication in arranging a telephone interview and formal interview. After the subsequent job offer she negotiated a higher salary too.

I realize they are doing this because they get commission, but she was incredibly polite, fast and understanding. It was a nice change to the car salesman and estate agents I’ve been dealing with recently.

I had a phone call where an agency had forwarded* Mrs SOG’s CV to an employer. At this point Mrs SOG had been dead three years.

Do, please, keep in touch and up to date, chaps.

*(edit) I think that’s the stage things were at.

Some are great. Others…….. Well if you imagine an estate agent, then take all of the charm, intelligence, wit, and professionalism and throw it away. Yeah, that. That’s most recruitment consultants.

First, no second, fifth, no…… Anyway, there going against the wall.

Some are good, some are really bad.

The way I see it is this..

If the Agent got you the Job then you turned it down, did you communicate that with the Agent first? or go direct to the Employer and tell them, with out letting the Agent know?

It makes all the difference.

slowoldgit – I hope you made them feel about an inch tall. That used to happen with my dad – I was quite young at the time and didn’t know any better so would reduce callers to tears at their faux-pas.

I have had three calls this week from recruiters for a job I know I can apply for direct with the organisation, and I know the organisation only uses xx and xx company. They got off the phone sharp when I pointed this out.

My fault for letting my CV get out there !

Put the email on their facebook or twitter? Seems pretty out of order. I’ve dealt with a few recently, a couple have been genuinely nice but the rest are snakes, your best friend until you say you aren’t interested in the irrelevant job that shares one key word with your CV then complete silence.

I’m fairly certain I got head hunted for my own old job, I’d written part of the job description in the first place and recognised the barely re-phrased sentences. Recruitment guy emailed me all excited, amazing opportunity, perfect fit for your skills etc etc, asked if it was my old job and never heard back again. Basically means they’d not read past the first few lines of my CV as far as I can see.

Basically means they’d not read past the first few lines of my CV as far as I can see.

It’s a numbers game – if your CV is a hit, they’ll read a few lines & fire off an “are you interested” email. Not until you get above my pay grade do they start the more personal service.

And to the op – don’t be surprised if the agent emails you in a few weeks with a “fantastic opportunity”, all will have been forgotten.

Recruitment consultant here, 20 years for my sins.

The only time I’ve ever been snotty with a candidate is when they’ve agreed to take a job, had all the information sent to them, start time and date agreed, referencing done, interviewing done etc etc then they disappear off the face of the planet. Stop answering calls and emails and don’t turn up for the job. Its the most infuriating thing, and the consultant has to pick up the pieces with the client and start the lengthy and expensive process again (if the client gives them a second chance that is) It happens more than you’d believe. When this happens most of the people just get a better offer and don’t see the need to formally withdraw from the job they’ve already accepted.

I usually leave it a couple of weeks, and phone them from a different number (which they usually answer) and tell them how unprofessional they are and how much grief they’ve caused. I genuinely think they have no idea.

My only experience of using agencies in the past has been when I was a lawyer. They’re all pretty specialised, so you get a good experience as both candidate and recruiter.

Now I’ve changed career and want to start interviewing*, I’m not sure where to turn. I can apply direct, but not all the decent roles are advertised and so need to find a suitable agency who aren’t a pin-the-tail-on-a-donkey lottery.

*last year was the first time in my career I haven’t been for any interviews – it’s important to keep your hand in.

The guys we use are a total liability- my office used them last to hire a project manager, now to be fair we were paying on the low side for the job, so interest was low- they decided to fix that by just adding 50% onto the renumeration figure. So when we hired the first guy, and told him the correct salary he told us to piss off. And so did the next guy. The third guy, who did take the job, wasn’t very good- well, he’d just accepted a job for 2/3ds what he thought it paid, there were clues. The agency still doesn’t seem to understand why we weren’t dead pleased that they got us lots of applicants.

hels – Member

slowoldgit – I hope you made them feel about an inch tall. That used to happen with my dad – I was quite young at the time and didn’t know any better so would reduce callers to tears at their faux-pas.

Totally OT but after we called Radio Rentals and told them my grandad was dead, they started sending us letters addressed to Mr James Govan Deceased.

Offering you a job without an interview, I assume that it was either a temporary post or they knew your name from within the industry?

Unfortunately there are a lot of bad recruitment consultants out there who just see candidates as fees, add no value to the process and get really snotty when you don’t do what they want. Very few barriers to entry, a propensity for the pushiest to be the most successful and the fact that clients will take good candidates from bad Rec cons means that any idiot can set up and often be successful.

That is an excellent summary or what I saw when I spent an unfortunate year recruit temp P/Q accountants for Hays. A thoroughly miserable year.

When our lab got made redundant we all put our desk phone numbers on our contact details (early days of mobiles being common ) we would answer the phone to an external ring with the company name and maybe make the recruitment guy squirm a bit before calling across the lab it’s a job thing for you. Even back then in the early days of monster CV harvest was common with vague jobs to gather cv’s to send out. Now it’s a buyers market things have changed a bit

Career path goes – Dixons salesman (Currys/PC World these days) -> Estate Agent -> Recruitment Agent

Or is it the reverse?

Best approach for freelance now I find is networking. Only problem is the amount of companies that won’t deal with you direct despite telling them how much cheaper it is dealing with my company. I’m finding more companies though will deal direct now for this very reason. Smaller ones in particular.

Some are good, some are bad, but you must remember that they are basically pimps.

I’d be ringing them to discuss the email and find out how brave they are when they’re not hiding behind a keyboard.

I had a dark 18 months in construction recruitment after uni – I bloody hated it very quickly, but it did open my eyes to an industry that I’d not thought about before and I ended up retraining as a QS via a firm I used to deal with.

There are some genuinely goods guys out there but it’s very easy to get swept up in the banging out CV’s, arranging unsuitable interviews etc because you’re targeted on that sort of stuff (or at least we were). We used to have to record the number of phone calls made etc. Basically chuck enough sh1t and hope some of it sticks. I hated it and clashed with the team leaders over quality versus quantity.

I passionately hated my time in recruitment and spent most of my time working out ever more creative ways of manipulating my numbers. I quickly established that the best consultants were, generally speaking, the biggest dicks. The exception to that being the guys who recruited for the £100k + jobs as they traded entirely on relationships.

The day I quit (arguably was sacked) was a happy happy day for me.

I had to go through this pleasure last year. I would routinely have conversations where an agent has found my CV online and asked if I’m interested in a job in <insert town>. On telling them that it’s too far to commute, they ask where I live, proving that they have not read my CV as my address is on the second line, after my name, but before my phone number, which they just used to call me 🙄

Bristol or Cumbria mainly.

I did deal with one agent who was very good, kept in touch with new vacancies etc., I *almost* felt bad that I ended up taking a job via someone else as she’d done everything right.

@ hels – I told the potential employer. I hope that was retribution enough.

cbmotorsport

Recruitment consultant here, 20 years for my sins.

The only time I’ve ever been snotty with a candidate is when they’ve agreed to take a job, had all the information sent to them, start time and date agreed, referencing done, interviewing done etc etc then they disappear off the face of the planet. Stop answering calls and emails and don’t turn up for the job. Its the most infuriating thing, and the consultant has to pick up the pieces with the client and start the lengthy and expensive process again (if the client gives them a second chance that is) It happens more than you’d believe. When this happens most of the people just get a better offer and don’t see the need to formally withdraw from the job they’ve already accepted.

I’m currently in the unfortunate position of being ‘between jobs’ I’ve had a few interviews and most of those agencies have been good in the initial comms. However when it goes quiet you know nothing more is going to happen and they’ve lost all interest in you.

Yes I know we’re a commodity and I’ll be kind in saying recruiters are disingenuous but please, show a smidgen of common courtesy.

Case in point; I had an interview last Friday and have chased 3 times for ANY feedback. Nadda……

I did 3 years in a recuitment company after finishing uni. I hated it.

The culture is a horrible one, they’ll let anyone in as it has such a hire and fire ethos to it.

There are some decent folks out there, but the number of slimeballs I’ve met trying to pitch their business (am now on the other side of the fence managing recruitment for a large firm) is depressing.

Yes I know we’re a commodity and I’ll be kind in saying recruiters are disingenuous but please, show a smidgen of common courtesy.

Case in point; I had an interview last Friday and have chased 3 times for ANY feedback. Nadda……

Some recruiters are arseholes. I completely agree, if they don’t get a result with your CV they drop you like a stone, and don’t give you feedback.

Some recruiters are juggling so many vacancies, and so many candidates that they only have time to really deal with the successful ones, bad I know, but it happens.

Some, (and I put myself in this bracket) take pride in being people persons, and it’s the only part of the job I really like. I’d like to think I’m different, and my candidates and clients tell me that, so maybe it’s true.

As above some of the legal ones are very good. There is still a tendency to go quiet rather than updating you if it doesn’t look like anything is going to happen, and one in particular oozes grease but I mainly deal with one recruiter who is very good.

She’s approached me several times over the years about jobs but has actually paid attention to what I’ve said, what I like, what I don’t, feedback from interviews, and in the last couple of years she’s only come to me with good stuff – she seems to get closer to the mark each time. I’m currently waiting for an offer (meant to be with me tomorrow…) from a position she called me about with a firm I probably wouldn’t have considered but she thought I’d like them and I did.

As above, some good, some bad.
In November, a local Council was advertising for my line of work, through an Agency. I emailed them expresing an interest, they replied back, £17.50/hr, start next week, just go for the interview and it’ll be yours.
I’m glad I went for an interview, as the Council Manager was an utter bell-end, and it was soon clear why there were permanently vacancies there, as well as him saying the pay was actually £14.50/hr.
The Agency rang me back, saying I’d got the job, I declined, they then rang me at least 5 times saying I’d let them down, and they would still like me to start etc. They got told to go away.

Recently got a call from another Agency, are you free next week? As it happened, yes I was, so started for another local Company for 2 weeks. I’ve been there 5 weeks now,and they want me permanently. The Agency guy gives me a ring each Friday morning, asking how things are, woudl I like another week etc, and is generally really good about it – offered extra travel expenses without asking, put 50p/hr on my pay. I know it isnt much, but these seem good guys (Approved Workforce).

I can’t defend the industry fullstop. I was open, quick, honest and told people if they weren’t successful. I worked with complete bull*****’s, a few who were complete Walter Mitty and a few who were great/I’d work with again.

Now I’m a candidate I’ve met with a few big (100+) companies. I wouldnt recommend or work there. One in particular – the commission is completely optional. Apparently the management can decide whether to pay out or not.

I’ve applied for jobs and found out halfway through the phonecall that actually the salary is half advertised. When I advertised jobs I’d put the top of the scale in the ad with the range included in the first paragraph.

A few didn’t even bother coming back to me. Even after ‘this is how we work/integrity).