Following on from this thread…

Cross & road bikes

I have been thinking about getting some use out of my old road bike (No it's not a TDF seasonal thing – more of a shed turnout…)

Anyway, given the collective STW bike knowledge repository I was wondering if anyone knows / knew anything about Paganini frames??

I bought the frame in the early 90s. Almost impossible to comprehend in these days of carbon fibre, but it is a lugged steel frame, with chromed seat and chainstays and chromed fork. The tubes are Columbus, but not too sure which tubeset or how to tell – I seem to remember they were one of the Nivachrome (sp?) tubesets.

The bike was always pretty fast, but very skittish. Subsequent knowledge gained from building up mtb frames suggests I used slightly too small a frame, and too high a gearing (lived somewhere flatter then…!!)

Any info on Paganini or Columbus steel tubes would be of interest.

Well Paganini made some excellent frames, and probably only in Columbus (i've not checked) IIRC Columbus used a monika like Columbus SL.
Around the early 90s when you say this is from, a lot of big name Italian manufacturers were knocking out cheaper versions i.e Oria CSS52 steel.
Not sure what the rear spacing was back then, probably sorted for 7 speed. It will also be 1" threaded as opposed to 1 1/8" Ahead and Quill. You can find and fit 1" Ahead though.
It'll be a nice ride if a little heavy. The period kit though nice to look at is rubbish in comparrison to new stuff.

Hang on as I imagine the STW collective is busy swatting up Paganini on Google.
Is it yellow by any chance?

oldgit – It's a metallic (ish) red / brown (chestnut) colour frame. As said, the rear end and the forks are chrome. Keep meaning to set up a flikr account….

Quite keen to find out what tubes – but Google hasn't helped as most tubes of that era seem to be of a standard diameter – and many of the Columbus specs only give the butting / tube thickness, not the OD or ID.

Might have a closer look at the bike tonight. Mrs rkk01 isn't too keen on me riding it to work.

http://www.equusbicycle.com/bike/columbus/columbuschart.htm
It is probably SL or SLX (equivalent roughly to Reynolds 531). If it is SLX you will be able to see or feel some spiral ridges on the inside of the seat tube at the bottom bracket end. Possibly the same on the inside of the fork / steerer tube.

That would have been pretty flash at that time, as most domestic racers were on regional shop frames i.e Ribble, Roy Thame, Shorter etc.

Hmmm, That table is useful – if I want cut the frame up and measure wall thicknesses!!!! Pity it doesn't have the outside diameters…

It does allow me to rule out some tubesets – ie those that aren't all round section for the main frame.

Not sure about the forks though? Unicrown? – they definately aren't lugged into the base of the csu.

Need to take the bike apart to look at a few of the accesible tube inners.

An unimportant, but interestingly pointless little puzzle 😆

No reason you shouldn't ride it to work, unless it's damaged or some super-niche disposable race tubeset. I'm still riding round on a 1989 frame.

I've got a Columbus tubed Cougar road bike circa 90s (which I think is Terry Dolan?) which sounds v similar – still riding it to work without any problems.
Done a few sportives on it as well without any problems – certainly makes passing guys on £2.5k of italian carbon more satisfying!

Decided to give it a test ride this weekend.

Got the indexing working ok, but think I'll dig out an old 8 sp mtb cassette to make life a little easier on the hills (It has huge chainrings on it).

My two biggest "safety" concerns are:

the brakes – do they just not work?? or am I too used to hydraulic discs and big grippy tyres?

and the tyres – haven't ridden 20mm Conti GPs for a very long time, and the sidewalls look quite perished 😮

Old single pivot brakes seem rubbish by nowadays standards. I tried my old Gios out that had Athenas, they were dreadful.
Also 20mm tyres 😕 you'll need twenty tyre levers and Geoff Capes to get those on and off.

Brake cables maybe corroded. Cassette will only fit correct hub and may not mesh with chain.

Tyres – if you are concerned – replace!

My advice:

*Tyres: ditch quickly. Get some 23s (or, better 25s) on it, assuming you have the clearances.
*Gearing: try SJs for cassettes and chains that may suit. In the meantime, change the inner chainring for something more suitable for hills – it's probably a 42; try a 39, or if you cam a 38.
*Brakes: if you can fit dual pivots, do. Much better than SPs.

Overall, I'd revive it as a commuter only so long as I could fit full guards (you'll know why once we get5 to Autumn and winter). Then I would have the rear dropouts re-sepaced by a frame builder to 130mm OLD and fit a new groupset (say, Tiagra) and enjoy.

In this throw-away age, it's nice to revive stuff.

Some nice Italian frames go for good money you could always sell it and upgrade

Well, first commute on the old road bike happened today. All good fun, although I took it fairly gently on what are now damp road surfaces.

About 5 mins quicker than the mtb (over 14 miles).

Thought it would be easier (lighter, bigger wheels, no knobblies etc), but HRM showed I was 10-15bpm over my normal HR. Always working the bigger gears I suppose – 53/39 and an 11-23 cassette required a very different approach to the hills!!

Need to get used to the ride and handling now.

Fairly sure that the frame / forks are Nivachrome steel Columbus EL Oversize. Bike is less twitchy than I remembered – although needs concentration / good weight distribution for cornering. Straight line stability feels totally diffrent to the mtb, but needs good spotting of potholes coming up in order to avoid them!

Consider myself a retro-niche road bike convert 😉

Sounds eighties Dump the steel parts and treat it to alloy parts Tey SJSCycels for the parts Raleigh do clssic 'eighties tyres their Peleton plus Puncture Resitant Tubes The Czar is another good tyre from cyclelife.com

Is tryedoctor the new Mark Datz?

Probably rather late to things now, but an easy way to check out if an old steel frame's any cop is to weigh it.

A 23" 531 frame will generally weigh around 5.5-6lbs with fork and headset. If it's around that weight or lighter, it'll be something decent.

Steel frames don't go wrong – I've got a 1950s frame in the shed that the LBS assure me is still fine to ride. The LBS is run by a framebuilder, so I trust his judgement.

If you have any rust coming through the chrome, WD40 and a pan scourer or wire wool does a good job.

Repaired my old mans 89' steel Raleigh roadbike, yes it weighs a ton but there are no hils where he lives. Gives a great ride but no it won't beat my carbon jobbie but it is fun. Columbus tubing (depending on the grading) was good quailty.

Why is the missus against you riding to work-dangerous roads?

Ooops – missed these replies been busy / away at the w/e.

Really enjoying this bike more and more as I am getting used to it 😛 particularly the really fine balance and handling.

Oddly, the best comparison I can give is with my Lucky Stike HT… it has a sublime fluidity that I can't really describe – except by comparison with the Ti HT. It does feel twitchy at low speeds, but gets much more stable at high speed (gyroscopic effect of wheels I guess), and is very responsive to slight changes of balance / weight.

Sounds eighties Dump the steel parts and treat it to alloy parts

Tyredoctor – It's early 90s rather than 80s – and I'm not sure that there is much steel on it (apart from the frame).

The only things I'm tempted to change are the old Conti GP tyres and Fizik saddle, which is a bit chunky. Components all seem to work well…

1st generation STi levers, 105 mechs and dual pivot brakes
Campag 53/39 chainset (not Record – Chorus??)
Mavic Open 4CD rims on Shimano(?) hubs.

A 23" 531 frame will generally weigh around 5.5-6lbs with fork and headset

Haven't stripped down to frame and forks. Built up weight is less than the Lucky Strike, which was about 23lbs depending on tyre fit. I'd guess somewhere about 21lbs all in???

I was given an old Paganini Sioux road bike a few years ago. Sadly it was too big for me. It seemed nicely made, quite 'old school' with lugs and that. I passed it on, and it was sprayed up and ridden for some time I understand. Yours would make a nice commuting bike, as it's not all fancy and flash like more contemporary stuff, and less of a target for thieves. Don't have it sprayed up nice if you're going to use it and need to lock it up though, tatty is best.

Would be nice if you did it up properly, with old school Campag bits though. Delta brakes etc. Mmm…

Any pics?

Any pics?

Just recently set up a photobucket account – will have to post some up

Finally got around to setting up image hosting – so a few pics of an old
road bike…

Image quality and upload courtesy of phone

Ah that's nice that is, no need to do anything to it, apart from just get on it and ride the bloody thing!

Look at that. Far more elegant and refined than today's stuff. Classy.

Ah that's nice that is, no need to do anything to it, apart from just get on it and ride the bloody thing!

Look at that. Far more elegant and refined than today's stuff. Classy.

Thanks –

get on it and ride the bloody thing

– that's exactly what I am doing, and very much enjoying 😀 😀

no need to do anything to it

Well, the saddle needs to go back half an inch, and maybe the nose needs to point down a smidge…

… oh and those eggies need to come off 😆

oh and those eggies need to come off

Yes, they do. Some nice clips and straps would look cool.

I like old bikes, They're like classic cars. Always somehow look a bit 'classier' than current stuff. Look at that chrome! Oooh…

That's crying out for a full set of Campag though. Japanese components on an Italian bike? Sacrilege!

Thats not old!
Having said that maybe the brakes blocks have gone a bit hard.
I have the same calipers and they are exceptionally good. Better than the tyre grip really. Try new blocks.

I "filed" some old Record Pedals (clips and straps) a few weeks ago as I was never going to use them and I couldn't give them away. They'd have been nice on that.

Looks nice. I'd be tempted to treat it to some Campy as the years pass by. A nice Athena 11 speed with an ally compact crank would be the way I would go. And stick to ordinary wheels. Modern wheels such as Ksyriums just don't look right on steel frames. Athena hubs, DB natural steel spokes, Open pro rims.

Lovely. Crud racerguards for bad weather. Don't looklike you'll get proper mudguards on to that.

That's crying out for a full set of Campag though. Japanese components on an Italian bike? Sacrilege!

I know, I know – went for the Shimano shifters at the time as I wanted to try STi levers…

Brakes are fine now – blocks / rims seem to have either bedded in or worn off any surface oxidation (??) or dirt. A couple of rides in and they developed a good bite. Rear locks up if over enthusiastic, and stoppies are the order of the day on dry surfaces!