Have you read the blog yet Zulu? Come on now, I know you're a bit embarrassed about this...let me help you:
Of course a weak apology has been issued. But it’s too late David. You’ve revealed a hateful attitude towards disability. Your ‘Off the cuff’ comment was a desperately cheap joke and no-one’s laughing.
No, no, come back and tell me why you think she's not pissed off about this. Are you revealing something about yourself as well here? Jesus, your desperation to defend Cameron beggars belief sometimes.
Ok, here goes. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there has been one positive outcome, which is a raising of awareness of the condition. Or would you rather people remain ignorant of conditions like this? Keep it hidden so that no-one needs to be worried? The way conditions like this used to be dealt with?
I think you'll find that what "we" were saying, is that the people claiming what Abbot said was not racist, were by and large hypocritical given their own castigation of people like Alan Hansen for using the word coloured, and that the real problem with the Left, was double standards.
and anyone who claims what abbot said was not racist or offensive, is on rather a weak bat trying to complain about what Cameron said. Either both of them made comments that were offensive, or neither of them made comments that were offensive - either/or, you can't defend one, without defending the other.
he is the Prime Minister, not the President.
we shouldn't just be voting for him and judging him on popularity and his public gaffs - but for what he does, what he says he will do and what he stands for.
he's said so himself.
he's still a **** though.
Cameron made an error, Abbot made an error. Both apologised and you can make you mind up on speed and sincerity etc. Shows you how hard it is to be an MP.
I think throwaway lines often reveal a lot of truth though - and that is where I think DA's error was "slightly" worse than DC's. It showed a clear underlying resentment of white people which is frankly racism. DC was more insensitive and mistaken but without the accompanying malice. Surprising that he should be so insensitive given his family history. Neither were sensible though and glad that both apologised.
But frankly both were molehills in the grander scheme of things! We are too quick to take offence.
Zulu, read the blog and you tell me whether she sounds confused or offended. Why are you so desperate to defend someone making a joke about a disability? Stick to the point in question and actually defend what Cameron said. Argue with TeeJ all you like about racism (not that you'd know anything about it anyway as we showed last week).
No, we are too quick to think we are offended when we are told that we should be offended, when really we should 1) think about whether we should be offended 2) not be so easily offended.
Unfortunately the situations in which we take offence and the point at which we become offended is constantly shifting based on people becoming more and more impressionable and persuaded by the barrage of opinion they are subjected to in the press/ media.
IHN - I am certain it was scripted. I do not believe he ever makes a non scripted remark.
Seriously? How would he know what questions may come up? Does he have a scripted answer for every question he may ever be asked? Well, if nothing else he must have an incredible memory.
Having watched the dating video now I'm home, I think it's actually pretty disgusting (assuming it's real) and at best it's in pi$$ poor taste. It's one thing making a silly comment like CallMeDave's, it's quite another to overtly mock someone like that.
Zulu - if someone said, 'look at that guy, walks like a cripple' would you say that was offensive and if so/if not how does that compare with DC's comments?
Yes, its offensive - as was camerons comment, just as Diane abbots comment was Racist
was offence intended - question of fact
Was anyone offended? question of fact
is it a problem if anyone is offended? no
Should we single people out and bully them with personally offensive comments to delibaretly upset them? no, that would be deliberate oppression and bullying, thats not the same as making comments in public that could cause someone offence, that are directed against a particular person or group.
I don't demand people should be sacked every time they offend someone -Just like I don't call for Franke boyle to be sacked every time he makes an offensive joke, and just like I don't think that Diane Abbot should be sacked for making a comment that, like it or not, was racist, any more so than I think Alen Hansen should have been in trouble for using the word coloured - for me to do so would be applying double standards.
"I find him incredibly annoying. He keeps making that flatlining gesture every time I get up to speak. I wish he'd contribute something positive instead of making the same old gestures over and over again."
And to be honest, hundreds of other ways.
We know why Balls does it. It winds him and Gideon up. Sometimes (and you may not believe me, but I really do believe this) it makes him lose his cool and he shows that there's somebody who finds it quite easy to be nasty, patronising and personal underneath the exterior.
do these threads ever evolve into higher level discussion about root cause of these problems, some social commentary or solutions? or do you rely on others to spoon feed you your opinions?
all you do is tear strips off each other and argue over trivia and semantics.
TV, Twitter, Interviews etc - just shows that they are all minefields. Who would want to be an MP?
I think we know how you feel about Twitter thm
I'm with you though, they're a minefield. As for who'd want to be an MP? Take a look at the crop we have now - actually, I'm wrong there, I'm sure there are many on both sides who are principled and there because it's what they want to do. However, these ones seem to get sidelined in favour of the more "presentable" ones. I think you probably know what I'm saying.
All this ‘taking offence’ is amazingly narcissistic - we’re so self absorbed with our own feelings - like children who must be prevented from upset and insulated from other peoples views. I consider it creeping linguistic fascism. If we're not careful all communications will be rendered inexpressive, banal & stilted. Yes our sensibilities will be unruffled, but Jesus wept it will be boring.
Irrespective of his policies, I guess Cameron of all people knows of the reality of caring for a disabled child.
OK so. How about context? Abbott was on twitter and off the clock, which is informal, space-constrained and conversational. Cameron was giving an interview as Prime Minister. Difference? No difference?
Zulu-Eleven - Member
Just like I don't call for Franke boyle to be sacked every time he makes an offensive joke
Would that not be a bit like calling for a plumber to be sacked for doing some plumbing?
We know why Balls does it. It winds him and Gideon up.
Sometimes (and you may not believe me, but I really do believe this) it makes him lose his cool and he shows that there's somebody who finds it quite easy to be nasty, patronising and personal underneath the exterior.
Aren't we all?
These comments say more about balls than anyone else. He's a person who is very, very difficult to
I don't condone CMDs comment AT ALL, balls would make me rather nasty if I had to look at him every day.
I taught a kid with tourettes today, god its annoying and sometimes I do loose patience with him but I would never, ever take the piss on the grounds of his disability, because firstly I like to think I'm an all round nice bloke and secondly and more pertinent to this thread I have a professional responsibility to be careful about what I say. Cameron should have no excuse for what he has said. Abbot was making a point and in context it was fair enough but poorly expressed and she should know better. Cameron was trying to take the piss out of someone by using a negative image of anothers disability, all well and good amongst mates in the pub, but not when doing official business of the government. Neither are the end of the world tbh and butt **** the poor is his more odieous trait.
I think David Cameron will know more about caring for people with handicaps, mental, physical or otherwise, than most of the people clamouring for his blood here.
The guy lost his son for crying out loud, a son who suffered from Cerebral Palsy and very severe form of epilepsy. He cared for him for six years before his death.
Really I think you should wind your necks in a little. None of you can teach him anything about care giving or loss unless you've been through something similar yourselves.
I think this means he should know better and demonstrates his remarkable lack of empathy tbh.