Lots of information around on this sort of stuff, can anyone recommend some decent reading for someone new to this?

Would like to find out a bit more about my numbers etc, not racing or anything, just out of interest and to maybe add a little structure and training element to my riding.

No idea about lactate threshold, but for MHR: run a 5k as fast as you can (PB), take a reading at the end, that will be basically be it minus a few beats

Joe Friel’s books are excellent resources for this sort of stuff. Careful about people on here. Lots of pseudo experts 😉

When your shirt gets wet, you’re lactating. But you knew that already, didn’t you Ermintrude?

Cheers sc-xc, can you follow me out tomorrow and shout up when you notice it?

I’ll bring a bucket.

And one for the milk…

Road bike review, Bikeradar, Timetrialling Forum…they love all that stuff 🙂

I’ve always wondered about Lactate threshold, so far the answers have been more accurate than the one on Max Heart Rate.

Ok smart arses, how would you go about measuring MHR?

Ok smart arses, how would you go about measuring MHR?

I’d get my coach to do it.

Alternatively, if you don’t want to pay for testing, just get in touch with the sports science department at the nearest university. Always students/researchers there gagging for people who are willing to sweat.

One of Joe Friel’s ways is to find a straight run with no junctions or traffic lights so you can ride as hard as you can for 30 minutes. A very slight uphill is also a preference.

Once warmed up and using a HRM set off. 10 minutes in hit the lap button and take the average heart rate for the final 20 minutes. That is your LTHR. From there you can set your heart rate zones listed in his books.

I did this the other day and they were almost identical to my zones done under lab conditions, but that was probably just coincidence.

You only really have one MHR, think of it like your cars engine it has a Maximum Rev, too much and it breaks.
So to find your max heart rate it needs pushing to the max and is only safely done with someone in attendance and is easier to get using multiple muscles rather than running or cycling. A rowing machine, its also not as far to fall when you hit it.

I read somewhere that MHR isn’t really necessary, LTHR is the preferred measure?

Having just googled it, this is the stance Friel takes. Certainly sounds safer to determine!

30 minute TT on the horizon then…

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2008/04/fatigue-series-introduction.html

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm

If you just wear your hr regularly during races / flat out efforts you will find your MHR pretty easily, when your vision starts to tunnel you are there!

As for LT my understanding is its the limit you can only just maintain for 30 mins, so go do some 30 mins riding on the limit of what you can do

I spent 3 years with a simple Hr monitor and friels book, established through races that my max was 202 and threashold was around 180. This time last year I stumped up to get properly tested. MHR = 202 LT = 178. So you can work it out pretty closely without expensive tests.

I,m told power meters is where it is at for proper training….

Been tested various ways from simple RPE on a spin bike up to breathing apparatus etc on treadmill etc. but not done blood tested LT experiments. In my experience the simplest (RPE) has worked best and interesting the max was derived from the perceived 70% effort threshold. Subsequent experience has led to a tweaking +\- a few heart beats, but this has been remarkably accurate. I then use karnoven formula to create zones and John L Parkers benchmarks for setting HR based pacing strategies from run of 5k, 10k, HM, mara and ultras.

About 18 months ago, I had more scientific assessment done which gave me much higher thresholds based in LT analysis. This was very detailed but I found the zones did not work for me in practice, so I have resorted to tested zones.

I have found that I can feel the classic gap around the dreaded zone 3 (where many train by mistake). Bottom end is where I can’t hold a conversation running and is is pretty much smack on 70% max for me. From there the rest can be calculated very easily for very little cost. Personally I think is is better than trying to work out max exactly. But don’t forget to adjust max, if you exceed it in a race!!!

LTHR is simply the highest heart rate you can sustain (read average) for an hour, in a quasi-steady state effort. However it’s difficult to maintain concentration/motivation for an hour so instead you’re probably best off using the ‘friel method, found here: http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2009/11/quick-guide-to-setting-zones.html

I’d be wary of training by heart rate given how inconsistent it is, caffeine, hydration and heat, among other things can have a huge effect – I’d say you’re far better of using RPE or Power. For instance a good dose of caffeine means I can hold 200bpm for a fair while, without caffeine I max at 201bpm.

And max heart rate means very little since it’s quite an arbitrary measure, in that it can yield different relative intensities to different people. So whilst your zones based upon MHR may say you’re in Z3, in terms of output you may be z2, this may be because you can sustain a relatively high heart rate compared to the average person. So yeah, whatever the highest heart rate you have ever seen on your HRM, that’s going to close to your MHR – but you don’t really need to know.

Edit: Technically LT is the wattage at the point at which lactic acid begins to accumulate within the body (A few labs use your baseline lactic level +1), but that’s another story.

I’d go along with DT78 and advocate power meters but as they are expensive its not an option for me at the moment.
I use my HR monitor to try and keep up a pace I know I can sustain. If I use the may formulas for MHR I always end up with at highest 170 and some saying 160.
For me that is a bit low, max HR recorded this year was on the Aubisque when it hit 199 I felt that and reduced effort.

So that would suggest, using formulas, that I am younger than I look.
Must have been the paper round 😀

You need one of these…

Are they cheaper than a power meter ?

Are they cheaper than a power meter ?

Nope, about 100 times as expensive. But, maybe ~10-20% of the cost of a power meter to use one for a while. And, you can then use the data and provide accurate HR based ‘zones’ as well as getting loads of clever sounding ‘stuff’.

ps. the one in the photo is ‘mine’*.

*by ‘mine’, I mean the University I work at owns it, and I get to play with it.

Ha nice, I have a friend who is in to all the HR stuff down at Swansea Uni, maybe if I talk to him nicely next time I’m down there.

Well, if I am honest, HR training isn’t as good as other measures of effort (as mentioned earlier in this thread)

Power > RPE > HR

Just waiting for the price of a Pedal based Power Meter to become affordable.

Just waiting for the price of a Pedal based Power Meter to become affordable.

I think you will be waiting for a while for one that works / is ANT+ / is affordable.

Might be better off looking at something like http://www.trainerroad.com/virtual-power in the mean time.

Power > RPE > HR

Wow, really? I would have thought that training in HR zones with a well calculated LT would be much better than going on perceived exertion (which is what I do all the time as I don’t have a HR monitor)

Unless I’m being a numpty and RPE is sonething else.

Power > RPE > HR
Wow, really? I would have thought that training in HR zones with a well calculated LT would be much better than going on perceived exertion (which is what I do all the time as I don’t have a HR monitor)

Yep, RPE is better than HR.

The physiological response above the below the ‘LT’ (this is not technically correct – but that is another discussion) is very different.

Below the ‘LT’ – hold a steady power and the HR is (reasonably) stable.

At and/or above the ‘LT’ – hold a steady power and HR increases as a function of time. Hold a steady HR and power drops as a result.

To ride ‘fast’ you will pace yourself around the LT – so the observations above raise their ugly head.

Someone pacing purely on RPE *tends* to do a better job/go faster than someone pacing *purely* on HR. But of course, there are always exceptions – which tend to come with their experience level and/or the duration of exercise.

Cheers folks, some interesting looking links.

It’s a passing interest mainly, so won’t be investing in power metres etc, but will hopefully use some of it to improve my riding.

*Thinks*
How hard can it be to put innards of some digital scales in a pedal shoe interface and add an Ant+ transmitter

you mean like this…

http://www.brimbrothers.com/