So, you see? It’s the same ole names, posting up the same old shyte.
It’s like you get to know how these threads will run, as does everyone else.
Which kind of makes one wonder why any of this lot still bother.

Unreal.

Correct. Take a look at the reams and reams of scrawl on this, and any other political thread these days. Qui bono? I mean, really? No one will ever change their opinion, so is it just a case of people arguing for the sake of arguing? Showing how awesome they are at doing that?

Yeah, very true. I guess the politicians care little for history. The military studies the lessons, but their policies cause the same mistakes to be made and the same outcomes to occur. I’m pretty sure a bunch of high school kids could do a better job.

Oh and to add, Iraq was never contained. Trust me on that. It was a **** mess from the minute we rolled through the berm, to the minute we closed down in ’09.

You cannot force people to show compassion for another human being as people do not think alike.
If you force people to show compassion then you are imposing your views on them and you are no better/difference than ISIS/Taliban etc.

What on Earth are you blabbering about “forcing” people too show compassion? Nobody suggested that was desirable or possible.

Look at the bleeding heart lefty handwringers on here spouting **** bullshit, these people are the enemy and will change your country forever. Our country will be a third world crap hole within a few years, and when they have bled us dry the whole cycle will repeat itself with the scum moving on to another continent like a plague of locust.

Superstar1 don’t forget 😉 or people might think you’re actually serious

So, aside from commenting on here what has anyone done to alleviate the migrants suffering?

I’ve spent a few hours sorting and storing donations for refugees at Calais
CalAid

moose – Member

@oldnpastit, yup! Old Bill Hague thought aiding in the arming of those trying to topple Assad would be a good idea. Even though there are many examples of this in history where it has come back to bite. He also ignored the advice of the very people employed to advise on such matters.

But weirdly everyone forgot about this during the election.

But weirdly everyone forgot about this during the election.

Yup, but then the other option was Labour (Iraq), so I guess the electorate didn’t have many other options?

, but then the other option was Labour (Iraq), so I guess the electorate didn’t have many other options?

Well labour under milliband had infact blocked Hagues attempts to bomb Syria

The Iraq war vote was also opposed by 30% of labour MP’s, it only passed because 90% of torries voted for invasion

That’s not the narrative we are continually fed though

Tangent though really,

On the train ride home I had read the story of the young boys drowned off Turkey, the pictures are harrowing

Upset me a lot as I went to pick up my 2 and 4 year old kids from nursery
When we got in caught a news story ashowing the migrants stuck at Budapest train station
My youngest asked what they were doing I explained they had no where to live
My eldest asked where they could watch TV?!
I explained they didn’t even have a bed
He said when he grows up he wants to be a builder anyway so he could build them houses.

As a confirmed bleeding heart hand wringing lefty nearly had me welling up!

Indeed. War is a profitable business. It would be nice for once to actually go and help people.

The Iraq war vote was also opposed by 30% of labour MP’s, it only passed because 90% of torries voted for invasion

That’s not the narrative we are continually fed though

The vote would have been lost even with 90% of Tories voting for it if the Labour Party had opposed it.

That’s the narrative you need to remember imo, instead of blaming the Tories.

EDIT : In fact the vote would have still been won even if 30% of Tory MPs had, like Labour, opposed it.

Look at the bleeding heart lefty handwringers on here spouting **** bullshit, these people are the enemy and will change your country forever.

The “Enemy” earlier

Attitudes like yours are a disgrace to simple decency

Couldnt bring myself to post that picture

When dead babies are washing up on European shores it becomes harder to ignore the plight of so many displaced people

I suppose he was part of what Cameron would describe as a ‘swarm’

Couldnt bring myself to post that picture

I know its absolutely dreadful, it moved me to tears, but this is the reality of the situation.

I can only imagine images of suffocated bodies piled on top of each other are even more distressing.

If pictures like this finally get people to take action then it’s worth the shock they cause.

Yup, handwringing liberal that has spent a fair amount of time in Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan.

I’ve got a spare room – quite happy to give it up too. Anyone know how to go about arranging it? Genuine question.

badnewz – just seems like you can’t handle the fact that some people actually do have more compassion than you and are looking for ways to justify your own lack of it.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105991

Our caring compassionate government has helped literally tens of them over the last few yeas, on my behalf,. And I for one think we should probably leave it at that, for fear of encouraging more of them

It is probably a couple more than that as we have given £800 million to help Lebanon,Turkey and Jordan with the million plus refugees each of them are accommodating. I am pretty sure that we will take more, however even if we take 50,000 it doesn’t begin to address the problem. 11 million people have been displaced by the fighting in Syria, half the population.-

I am pretty sure that we will take more, however even if we take 50,000 it doesn’t begin to address the problem.

“Begin” to address the problem is exactly what it does. Its 50,000 people who have safety and the chance to lead a dignified existence free from war and persecution.

Saying taking in more refugees doesn’t solve the problem is a bit like saying after you’ve torpedoed a ship, that picking the drowning people out of the sea won’t stop the ship from sinking. Yes it’s technically correct, but its the just bullshit rhetoric designed to excuse inaction.

Giving £800 million is hardly inaction, the point is the problem is far greater than just the refugees trying to get into Europe – and are those than make it here the most in long term need of asylum? 10% of the Syrian population is Chrisitian, what will be in Syria for them when something resembling a state emerges?

It’s not enough to just take in people. They still need to get here and that’s the dangerous part. They are dying en mass trying to get into the EU, we should be offering them safety and a secure route before they fall victim to the traffickers.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/5-practical-ways-you-can-help-refugees-trying-to-find-safety-in-europe-10482902.html

It’s not enough to just take in people. They still need to get here and that’s the dangerous part. They are dying en mass trying to get into the EU, we should be offering them safety and a secure route before they fall victim to the traffickers.

I agree completely – there needs to be a legal way to obtain asylum – preferably via UNHCR refugee camps in neighbouring countries, that prioritise asylum on established and fair criteria

Trouble is, that to make that work you have to close off ways of jumping the queue – so anyone arriving on European soil via any alternative route has to be returned to the refugee camp and put through the same process as everyone else – that would also make the trafficking ineffective, as there would be no reward by taking the risk

Sound fair?

Ps, the dead child, tragedy though it is, appears to have died setting off in a boat from Turkey.

they may have been fleeing Syria, but were they also not safe in Turkey?

Good link kimbers. Heard Cameron saying that we need to resolve the problem in Syria itself. People need solutions NOW. God knows how many years it will be before Syria and Iraq are stable. That picture is heart breaking.

Ps, the dead child, tragedy though it is, appears to have died setting off in a boat from Turkey.

they may have been fleeing Syria, but were they also not safe in Turkey?

A new low for you ninfan. I don’t know if they were safe in Turkey – estimates range from 1-2 million refugees from Syria in Turkey so I imagine conditions might be pretty grim in some of the camps there.

Also:

Turkey has accorded temporary protection to Syrians on their territory, which precludes forced repatriation, however legally they are not refugees in Turkey but ‘guests’. Turkey is a signatory to the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees, however because of a geographic exception written into the original document it is only obligated to accept refugees from European nations. Thus, Syrians in Turkey do not have access to all the legal safeguards accorded to refugees elsewhere, and those seeking permanent resettlement must look to a third nation. Turkey long-maintained an open border for fleeing Syrians, although that policy has changed somewhat as the crisis has grown. For this reason, a substantial number of people are now camped on the Syrian side of the border, waiting for an opportunity to cross.

Something a bit more positive – hopefully something similar will be set up in the UK soon:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/01/berlin-group-behind-airbnb-for-refugees-overwhelmed-by-offers-of-help?CMP=fb_gu

Turkish media identified the boy as three-year-old Aylan Kurdi and reported that his five-year-old brother had also met a similar death. Both had reportedly hailed from the northern Syrian town of Kobani, the site of fierce fighting between Islamic state insurgents and Kurdish forces earlier this year.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/02/shocking-image-of-drowned-syrian-boy-shows-tragic-plight-of-refugees

It’s worth remembering that when the “Islamic state insurgents” were operating solely in Syria the UK government did not classify them as terrorists, it was only when they started operating in Iraq, and therefore against UK/Western interests, that Theresa May decided to classify them as terrorists.

We bear some of the responsibility for the situation in Syria today, we now bear some of the responsibility for helping to deal with the appalling consequences of ISIS’s rise.

I’ve been trying to avoid seeing that picture all day. Not your fault richmtb, it was inevitable I’d see it eventually, and in a small way which I’m not yet appreciating, I’m glad I did. Now I have, I don’t think I’ll ever forget it.

I wonder how different the situation might be if the bodies of young refugee children were washing up on UK shores.

The images today brought me back to this thread having previously decided It would be best left to lie.

I previously used the word naive to describe Germany’s announcement it would accept ALL Syrians as refugees. It’s not a limit or matter of 800,000 or 1,000,000 it’s a commitment without limit. To do so with no provison or mechanism to facilitate their journey is wholly irresponsible. Their announcement creates a huge draw. They should be providing flights to Germany direct from Turkey. They should be providing trains and travel VISAs to all Syrians currently in Europe Having failed to do so they bear responsibility for Syrians desperate attempts to reach Germany via illegal and deadly means.

In support of a comment made above Turkey is a safe country and has been a safe home for 1.5 million refugees. It is a legitimate question to ask of Turkey is doing enough to prevent people setting off from its shores to the close lying Greek Islands in particular as Germany has said it will take all Syrians. It is legitimate to ask who is providing and/or selling boats.

On a somewhat related point of the 2000 migrants who arrived in Munich by train from Hungary 25% where placed in a special camp as they have no chance of being granted asylum or refugee status based upon their nationality.

jambalaya – Member

I previously used the word naive to describe Germany’s announcement it would accept ALL Syrians as refugees.

Naive? And you say it as if it’s something remarkable. All Germany has said is that any Syrian refugees fleeing war will be allowed to apply for asylum, there’s nothing remarkable about that – it’s the behaviour that you would from a civilized country. Do you propose that there is an alternative to that……..that you can turn away people fleeing war?

And just to put a perspective on the situation, you talk about Turkey and although it has 1.8 million Syrian refugees, Lebanon which has a population of just 4 million, has 1 million Syrian refugees – 1 in 5 people in Lebanon are Syrian refugees, do you expect Lebanon to take another million refugees?

Instead of talking about being “naive” and “wholly irresponsible” you need to perhaps look at humanitarian obligations.

Although considering your views on the Palestinians I guess that’s probably a tall order in your case.

richmtb – Member
Look at the bleeding heart lefty handwringers on here spouting **** bullshit, these people are the enemy and will change your country forever.

The “Enemy” earlier

Attitudes like yours are a disgrace to simple decency

I know at some point someone is going to post a dreadful picture coz up until now there are only pictures of adults in the media … not shocking enough.

Yes, it’s shocking and yes it is sad but ask yourself these questions.

Who put the child’s life in danger (the picture)? Other people or the parents? Did I/we force the parents to climb on the boat to risk the children’s lives?

No doubt you will label me as lowest of the low but in other part of the world children are deliberately crippled (leg/hand amputated, some all four limbs and some blinded) so they can beg for money. Yes, they may still be alive but their condition is akin to a living dead. It would be better off if they died than to endure a life of suffering.

I feel sorry for the innocence child in that photo but with that sort of parents risking the innocence child’s life, you don’t need outsiders or others to create hardship and suffering. They are already capable of doing that themselves and your short term solution will merely create more troubles for all. i.e. now that they have found your soft spot it is time to push it home hard …

Queue, get process or jump the queue and take the risk of dying. Their choice.

🙄

Did I/we force the parents to climb on the boat to risk the children’s lives?

yes. we did both by bombing syria and also by arming the conflict. we enjoy this affluent society that is funded in part through the arms trade. so stop thinking like a zombie maggot

Some interesting thoughts from our retiring ambassador in Lebanon – here

Listening to Andrew Mitchell on Five Live this morning justifying the governments decision to continue to refuse to take any of the refugees was absolutely shameful.

I thought I was listening to the wrong programme, and it was ‘Defend the Indefensible’ on Fighting Talk on a Saturday morning.

We’ve sent the countries around the region, that the Syrian refugees are feeing into, some tents and blankets. So we’ve more than done our bit. And we shouldn’t let anyone suggest that Germany offering to take a million refugees means that they’re doing any more than us. Not a bit of it. A sort of big, happy episode of Carry on Camping, with British Tents and blankets, on the Turkish border is a perfectly adequate response from us.

Now for gods sake will you stop posting up those pictures of dead kids. I’m trying to eat my breakfast

a shitty government for a shitty little country.

Let’s put into perspective how much we have given. We have given £800 million. I can’t find recent figures for how much Germany has given but when we had given £600 million at the end of January this year, they had given £200. To be honest, the Germans were relatively generous, France had given only £30 million.

You can question whether this was the right strategy, but you can’t say we have done nothing in comparison to our European neighbours.

Cameron looked so ashamed he could barely look at the camera as he gave his interview yesterday, explaining that taking in fefugees wouldn’t help that it was fixing the problems in Syria etc. It’s almost as if his spine had literally slid out of his arsehole on his limo ride over, and that was before the picture of the drowned child came out
Mitchell looked slightly more self assured on newsnight

As for how much we’ve donated, how does that compare to the profit we made selling Assad the helicopters he uses to drop barrel bombs on markets, or the money we made whilst Cameron was touring the middle East with UK arms dealers selling weapons as the Arab Spring started?

@ Jam Blaming Germany
Face Palm
People were dying trying to get to the EU before Germany made this announcement. If they say they wont accept any do you think all of this will cease?

To try to blame them, with such a ludicrously false argument, is , even by your standards, somewhat flawed.

you can’t say we have done nothing in comparison to our European neighbours.

Why do we always have to measure everything in terms of money rather than actual help, decency, compassion and outcome?
We paid some money to try to stop them turning up on our doorstep asking for help.
It has not worked and we now see dead children in the sea

What do you want to do now?

And we shouldn’t let anyone suggest that Germany offering to take a million refugees means that they’re doing any more than us. Not a bit of it

Germany are just recognising reality. Unlike the UK they don’t have border controls. Hence migrsnts are taking dangerous sea crossings and then going through other safe countries to reach there.

Unlike the UK Germany is facing a declining population and may benefit from increased immigration.

As for how much we’ve donated, how does that compare to the profit we made selling Assad the helicopters he uses to drop barrel bombs on markets,

Really. The Syrian airforce operates Russian French and Polish helicopters according to wikipaedia. A captured Syrian pilot says it’s the Russian ones dropping barrel bombs. Maybe the Russians should take some miigrants?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Arab_Air_Force#Pre_Syrian_civil_war_aircraft_inventory

http://www.janes.com/article/52910/syrian-pilot-details-helicopter-operations