Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 560 total)
  • Calais Migrant camp- a conversation
  • yunki
    Free Member

    I’ve seen a few articles in the last few weeks from people that have been over to Calais to meet the people that are living in the camp..

    It made me think about what questions I would have for them and what I would tell them about myself, my family, and our country..

    What would the good folk of STW have to say to these people?

    binners
    Full Member

    dknwhy
    Full Member

    I’d tell them that it’s not that great here and that given half the chance, i’d be heading into other parts of Europe.

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    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    What would the good folk of STW have to say to these people?

    If they were from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya, I might feel a strong urge to apologise.

    ineedabeer
    Free Member

    I would tell them this is not the land of milk and honey they think it is, having said that its far better than a war torn country.

    loddrik
    Free Member

    I’d say ‘you wanted a new life in Europe. You’re in France. You’re already ‘safe’. France has just as good standard of living to Britain. Plus way more mosques. And better weather. Just stay here ffs’…

    zippykona
    Full Member

    I have a plan.
    It’s either really good or the first step to death camps.
    The biggest threat to our country is having our energy controlled by other countries. Making us energy self sufficient should be our priority.
    We have plans for tidal power and other projects.
    They are all expensive.
    The solution …The British Foreign Legion.
    Centres are set up over Europe where people can enlist and after sufficient checks are accepted.
    For 3 years they will work on civil engineering projects ,such as the tidal projects and making,installing solar panels to every house. They receive food , accommodation and a little spending money as they would in the French Foreign Legion. English lessons would be provided if necessary.
    After 3 years they have helped a country they really want to be in and are awarded citizenship.
    Of course they could bugger off on day one but we will know who they are where they come from and as such could be deported if caught.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    after 3 years they have helped a country they really want to be in and are awarded citizenship.

    and what exactly did you do to achieve your citizenship zippykona?

    Or were you just born here? Is that your claim to entitlement on this bit of rock?

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Where else should I live?
    What entitles you to live in your house?
    A situation exists, people will try and die to get here.
    Let’s come to an arrangement that benefits everyone .

    ton
    Full Member

    let them come and go as they please, just like we can in most places we wish to travel to.
    if they decide to settle they will soon either work, sign on or move somewhere else….just like we british folk do.

    binners
    Full Member

    Are you seriously suggesting that we give brown people the same rights to travel the globe that those of a more pasty complexion take for granted?

    No… I’m sorry…. we can’t be having any of that, I’m afraid.

    ton
    Full Member

    we are all the same in the eyes of god. so, yes

    surroundedbyhills
    Free Member

    Gosh Binners – they’re not all Brown, some will be Olive skinned I imagine. You are so blinkered!

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Where outside Europe can a British citizen work without a visa?
    All the stamps in my passport say employment prohibited.

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    Wot ton said. The world has changed, everyone’s more mobile and I don’t see why we should be barring access to people based solely on where they happened to be born.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    a more pasty complexion

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    let them come and go as they please, just like we can in most places we wish to travel to.
    if they decide to settle they will soon either work, sign on or move somewhere else….just like we british folk do.

    So for example an i just able to permanently up sticks and migrate to australia? or the US? Not without jumping through alot of hoops i cant…

    I think that the same should apply here, if you want to live and work here you need to be able to demonstrate you bring required skills and exp into our country

    unless of course you have a genuine reason for seeking asylum..

    rene59
    Free Member

    I would listen to their stories, wish them good luck and to stay safe. I don’t think any country is worth dying for trying to get in.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    I don’t think any country is worth dying for trying to get in.

    For the refugees, they are not dying to get in. They are dying trying to make sure they don’t have to go back.

    Economic migrants, not so much and I agree with your point.

    spchantler
    Free Member

    There was ano interview on the radio with a bloke from Syria, his brother had been called up to fight, killed, he was next. His options were to fight for the regime, which he didn’t support or join isis, which he didn’t support. What would you do? I think sometimes we lose sight of what are a whole lot of individual human tragedies, not just a set of numbers, or scroungers. These are desperate times, thank god it’s not happening here

    Pawsy_Bear
    Free Member

    So if you were called up to fight for your country and didn’t agree you would leave?

    It is a tragedy but it should be a local solution. The neighbouring countries in the Arab world should take them in. They can then easily go back once the wars over. It would also focus the neighbouring countries on supporting a solution instead of fueling the war. Moving them half way around the world isn’t a solution. You seem to miss the point that an asylum seeker should seek asylum in the first country they come to. Not the umpteenth.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    What he said
    we should be able to bomb the shit out of impoverished nations after decades of instability and then leave their equally impoverished neighbours to deal with the problems we created. If folk die its not our problem as they are not British and lets be honest that is all that matters.

    Unless they are good at a sport we like [ or very rich] in which case they can have a passport.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    I have asked before with no luck.
    Do we know the figures for people (especially amongst men of conscription age) leaving the UK for the Irish Republic during the second world war?
    My parents aren’t aware of anyone.

    muddydwarf
    Free Member

    I recall talking to a chap who’s grandfather was a Scots Nationalist & who refused to fight during WWII saying it was an “English war”. Apparently he scarpered for the Irish Republic & got in with the IRA boys.
    Mind you, his other grandfather did fight – for the 14th Galicia SS 😯

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    EDIT: Ynuki I am not sure waistband ask then, perhaps why have you chosen this route,missy and expensive, vs arriving by plane with a visa ? The fact is the UK is a land of milk and honey relative to where these people have come from. I understand totally why they’d rather live in the UK

    The majority of the Calais migrants are not from places the UK has “bombed the shit out of”, they are from sub Saharan Africa.

    I have no issue with asylum seekers or economic migrants wanting to come to Britain, we should have a an application system – oh hold on a minute we do do, it’s just these people are trying to evade it and throwing away their passports so they can’t be deported

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    yunki
    Free Member

    When I was at secondary school in the 80s, my best mate was Iranian..

    He and his sister and their parents had escaped across the desert on camels, escaping conscription..
    My mate was shot in the shin at age 12 whilst serving in the Iran/Iraq war..
    He always maintains the hardest part of being a child soldier was the weight of his gun..

    Do you have evidence to back up your claims Jambalaya?
    I have no idea what I could possibly say to those people that wouldn’t make me feel like a bloated bourgeois zombie maggot

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    I want everyone coming to the UK to be subject to the same rules as does an Indian, American or Austalian for example.

    I travel though the tunnel at least once a month, we see dozens one people by the roadside all are clearly African and young males. This ties in with what I see on TV and what I’ve read on numerous news sources. As you know I’ve been following the immigration issue for years, have a watch if the excellent Europe or Die series on Vice News. I was shocked about the Moroccan / Spanish border (the Spanish have a couple of ports in North Africa which are Spanish territory)

    moose
    Free Member

    There were 25,020 asylum applications (main applicants) in the YE March 2015, an increase of 5% compared with the previous 12 months (23,803). The number of applications remains low relative to the peak number of applications in 2002 (84,132). The largest number of applications for asylum came from nationals of Eritrea (3,552), followed by Pakistan (2,421) and Syria (2,222).

    Migration Statistics Quarterly Report, May 2015 – ONS

    After seeing all the TV news reports, looking at the many photos taken and interviews, I’d ask ‘where are all the women and children?’. The majority of people that appear are males between 18 and 35, hardly ever do you see women and children, or the elderly. Are they content to stay in deplorable conditions or are the men trying to get to the UK and then establish themselves to bring their family at a later date?

    binners
    Full Member

    I think it’s tragic what our reaction to the migrant crisis says about us as a nation. About what we’ve become. Cold-hearted, insular, and cruel. Happy to abandon people to their fate, with a nonchalant shrug. Have we lost our humanity completely? It would appear so.

    These people – and they are people, not a ‘marauding swarm’ – are fleeing horrors we can barely imagine. Yet what is our reaction to this. We tell them we’re not here to try and address this. Not our problem. Just **** off back to where you came from, as we turn away and get on pursuing our own selfish, greedy agendas. We have allowed our compassion to be hijacked by small minded and uncaring racists, who now dictate the terms of our national debate.

    When you were born in a safe, rich, peaceful stable country you won life’s lottery. Have the good grace to acknowledge that fact, and accept that we have a moral obligation to help these people.

    I despair at what we’ve become

    moose
    Free Member

    We’ve become? There has always been that element within the UK, migrants have been treated with suspicion and hostility for as long as I can remember. Unfortunately it seems people have become swayed by the mass hysteria that has been so skilfully created.

    I’m all for helping people who genuinely need it, and there are a great deal that do. What we need is an efficient and rigorous system that can ensure those that need help get it, those who are working their ticket get dropped on their arse. The UK has enough of its own citizens who are a burden by choice and have no wish to be anything more, but the system we currently have is under-funded, under-staffed and under-resourced.

    But if we try to address the issues in their home we’ll be seen as imperialists, and all the other bollocks some espouse on here. I would much rather go to Eritrea and beat the crap out of the criminals that take all the international aid for themselves, than some of the other jaunts I’ve been on. Some of these countries have woefully inept security forces that could do with rigorous training and funding to ensure the security of their own people.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    yunki – Member
    What would the good folk of STW have to say to these people?

    Q1. Are/were you an Afgan interpreter for the forces? If you are/were Not we don’t want you. (these are the people we should help) But we might help you if you can answer the questions below …

    Q2. Do you have fat gene and if you do we don’t want you because we have enough of them here.

    Q3. Are you beautiful? If we deem that you are not we don’t want you coz we have plenty of them here.

    Q4. Do you eat pork? If not you better start trying coz we don’t have goats.

    Q5. Are your next generations going to impose your belief on us since you will definitely multiply more than us? No, this is Not your home unless you can prove that the Roman kidnapped your ancestors …

    Q6. How do you intend/propose to pay back the “free” money you get while here? Can we levy extra tax on you if you decide to stay on for the next few generations?

    Q7. Are you grateful? How do you intend to demonstrate that?

    Q8. Do you think you have rights to be here?

    Q9. Are you tolerant of other beliefs? We have plenty of idols worshipers here …

    10. What can you contribute to our society assuming that you have decided that you have the right to be here forever?

    Ya, I know … it’s human questions. 😯

    Oh ya I don’t care who you are but if you can fulfill all the questions above you are welcome. Skin colour is of no concern to me.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    The majority of the Calais migrants are not from places the UK has “bombed the shit out of”, they are from sub Saharan Africa

    Why not read the poster above that I was mocking
    Wow you mean they were wrong…..who could have guessed

    You may have shot the wrong messenger there
    FACE PALM.

    What Binners says if you say anything else you have no humanity or empathy

    Many on here , and many of our fellow citizens are failing the Turing Test here.
    You just dont care as money matters to you more than the suffering of people.

    Lifer
    Free Member

    I’d rather let in 100 people who ‘shouldn’t be here’ than refuse one person who genuinely needs help. Stupid petty borders.

    poly
    Free Member

    I’d tell them that it’s not that great here and that given half the chance, i’d be heading into other parts of Europe.

    there is free movement of UK citizens across Europe so you have more than half-a-chance. Man up and get on with it.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    poly – Member

    I’d tell them that it’s not that great here and that given half the chance, i’d be heading into other parts of Europe.

    there is free movement of UK citizens across Europe so you have more than half-a-chance. Man up and get on with it. [/quote]

    Or try to change it.

    The migrants are doing just that, man up etc, see where they are now? Ya, on the run.

    You don’t try you never know, the migrants try and they succeed. Simple.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Junky – bear in mind that you are talking to someone who finds a moral justification for napalming Palestinian children. Don’t expect much sympathy for the victims of Assad or Isis.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    jambalaya – Member

    The majority of the Calais migrants are not from places the UK has “bombed the shit out of”, they are from sub Saharan Africa.

    CITATION NEEDED

    It’s a side issue, since it’s obviously not a prerequirement that a refugee or asylum seeker should be from somewhere we’ve personally trashed. But still. Genuine numbers seem hard to come by, but the majority of migrants in europe aren’t african (half come from syria and afghanistan alone), and the majority are at least eligible to apply for asylum (70%). The population of the jungle might be different of course.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @Northwind you obviously didn’t read my post where I gave my citation. See the other posters saying the same thing.

    @binners we are one of the most generous nations in terms of international aid with a commitment to a fixed percentage of GDP despite cutting budgets/spending. We are one of ten largest donors to support refugee camps, for example in Jordan. There are more ways of supporting people than encouraging them to come and live here.

    We have 10,000 asylum seekers who have absconded after having exhausted all means of appeal.

    @DrJ the thread is about Calais, there are very few Syrians in Calais it’s mostly sub-Saharan Africans. We won’t see many Syrians in Calais going forward as Germany has pledged to accept all Syrian asylum seekers. The estimates are they will see migrants jump from 215,000 so fat this year to 800,000. There is a great deal of concern in Germany as to how these people will be accommodated

    yunki
    Free Member

    Todays offering (from Anastasia Meldrum on FB)

    I went to Calais with no expectation. Full of fear that the atrocities I had seen in the media might be correct and that the people there were in fact the monsters that that have been portrayed. Was I self entitled and feeling guilty? Perhaps. Was I scared that I was leading other people to believe that there were good people in the jungle and I might be wrong? Maybe. Was I full of hope that everything above would be overcome by the reality of the plight we would encounter. I hoped so.

    My visit to ‘The Jungle’ in Calais – As we arrived on the dunes and saw the camp for the first time I couldn’t help but feel shocked…. It is a vast expanse of tarpaulin and structures that are similar to slums. Shocking and disorganised to the naked eye. There was that fear again – ‘Are we doing the right thing?’ ‘Have we made a massive mistake?’
    Driving in didn’t feel any better. We couldn’t get hold of our contact and had nowhere to drop the thousands of pounds worth of goods we had received in donations from friends. There were Refugees surrounding our truck asking what we had and if we could give them any shoes or sleeping bags. I felt scared and unprepared.

    As we were devising a plan, we saw a British lady walking around, not a care in the world, laughing and smiling – A sigh of relief…. We got out of the car and asked for some advice.
    ‘Hi, I’m Liz! welcome! How are you? Where have you come from today?’
    Liz gave us the contact of a man named George, the head of a charity named ‘Salam’. He and his wife Claudine have dedicated their retirement to helping the refugees coming in to the jungle and we were able to make an arrangement to meet them and drive to their deposit centre to drop our donations and make a plan for the next day.

    Having slept and returning the next day we saw a very different picture…. The initial fear and anxiety we had ashamedly built from our own prejudice, melting away.
    As we drove down the very same road, smiling faces and greetings came from all around us. ‘Hello! Welcome to our home!’ again and again. Those same curious faces didn’t seem so menacing after all, the menace was inside of us it would seem.
    We drove down to Salam to organise donations of food. Each bag receiving 4 cans of mixed food – tomatoes, tuna, beans, rice, tea, milk, salt, and other items. We made 500 bags in total (The jungle currently has over 3,500 Refugees) and around 500 loaves of bread (France have an incredible policy that all food left from supermarkets must be donated to charity)
    There were two planned dropping points – The first in the Afghanistan part of camp and the second in the Sudanese part of the camp. As soon as we arrived we saw people sprinting from all directions, desperate to get one of the packages. It was chaotic, we were screaming these people in to a line so the van wasn’t overcome. These people who have nothing. Proud people from their own countries. Doctors, electricians, carpenters all vying for the same goal – A meal.
    My heart broke as we drove away, hundreds of desperate faces looking back at us because they didn’t run quite fast enough to make the drop off. Still waving and saying ‘thank you’

    The second drop was far more calm. A better established part of town. As a man ate a croissant he looked at me and said ‘You have a kind heart. Thank you’

    My heart broke again – I know nothing of kindness in comparison to his words. The compliment was all his.

    Our next task was dinner service. The French Government supply 2,500 meals per day which equates to one meal for two thirds of the current inhabitants at the camp. I watched as at least 3,000 people queued at the singular dinner line from 1pm. Dinner starts at 5pm.
    Dinner was cous cous, sausages and veg served by us in tiny portions. Every single person I served at that dinner line was utterly grateful, chatty and smiling – regardless of the fact it was now hammering rain and they were soaked and starving. They all looked at me with the eyes of ‘is that all!!’ but not one of them questioned it unless in jest. They were just grateful.
    There was one man who really sticks in my mind – He was dignified and important, I could see that, yet here he was. He said thank you all the same but behind his eyes was devastation. Incomparable devastation.

    Over the next two days we did more volunteer work. clearing litter in the camps, more distributions and sorting, Taking supplies to mothers/children and pregnant women, dinner services, first aid on the horrendous injuries we encountered – yet all of that pales in to insignificance in relation to the people;

    There are things in that place that I have never been fortunate enough to encounter until now; Prevailing hope where all is lost, happiness in the face of aversion, a non-judgemental attitude even when pushed, a community spirit and pride in nothing and everything.
    Within the confines of what is seen to be chaos and destruction, there is order and peace. Several countries unifying as one, Mosques and churches in the same space, small restaurants and shops, architecture, a school and a library for the children. A neighbourhood of people searching for a better way of life because they were forced to flee from their own homes.

    I spoke with just two people hoping to claim asylum in England, the others I spoke to were seeking asylum or were already in the process in other EU countries. Contrary to belief, the £39 per week benefit system in the UK isn’t the driver for this community, the majority just want safety and a job.
    Asylum can take up to two years in any country with no work offered in the interim so the jungle is a place of safety whilst they wait. It is their home. their desperate and beautiful home.
    Interestingly, a person can’t claim asylum in the UK, regardless of their status until they set foot in Dover….. That can only be achieved by committing a crime in itself.

    The 8 year old girl who had known more pain than I could ever imagine – She taught me French whilst translating English to other children in her native language. She laughed and played with us like she didn’t have a care in the world.

    The man who I gave first aid to on a serious wound, who’s family are in England because he made them safe first.

    The pregnant woman who prayed that her family aren’t dead.

    The man walking home from the trains with 4 breaks in one leg because he lost all of his family in his country and wants to prove he can succeed in another.

    I commend you.

    I thought I knew pain, loss, fear, courage and appreciation. I know nothing in comparison to the people I met on our short stay to Calais.

    The camp will be particularly needing volunteers over the winter. Do get in touch for details if you feel like you want to help.

    xxx

    She’s only a young ‘un and maybe she doesn’t have the political insight and statistics that Jambalaya gets from watching television and reading his newspapers.. but there are these sorts of reports coming in daily now from ordinary people that have gotten off their butts to go over and see for themselves what is happening..

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