I want to learn to weld, but im skint- can i just get a welder and just have a go?
Basically im gonna get an old Honda CB450 motorcycle (cheap) thats old rusty and unloved, and i want to turn it into a cafe racer. Im going to need to weld some stuff as i have an idea in my head and want to do it all myself.
All from the comfort of my shed!
It’s all on a budget from breakers yards, i can do all the polishing prepping and painting stuff myself. And im learning as i go!!

Any welding tips?

What type of Welding? Mig, Tig, Stick?

Be warned, welding old rusty stuff isn’t always that easy.

Yes you can. Get hold of some scrap metal to practise on. There are plenty of websites to show you how – youtube is good too.

If you want advice then contact us – we’re always happy to help fellow bikers.

The project sounds interesting – keep us posted…

I come from a family of welders/fabricators/engineers … there’s a real difference between welding and just joining bits of metal together 😉

Good luck though.

Ive no idea but ive heard MIG is best to start with, but that TIG is best for fine work.
I’ll be working with steel mainly, but there will probably be some aluminium somewhere along the way. Especially the fuel tank.

The metal will of course be prepped before welding

Im aiming for something like this:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTsY4ALm8C0[/video]

Get a fan cooled mig welder and avoid the gasless ones. For motorbike welding you shouldn’t need to weld steel thicker than about 4mm so a lower end model would do but this won’t have the level of control needed.
Get loads of scrap tubing (scrap bike frame?) and practice loads before you go anywhere near the real thing. Cut up your practice welds to check for full penetration and play about with the welder settings (current/wirespeed)until you have perfected it.
Also have a fire extinguisher on hand by the shed door, just in case like 😛

Have a look here for some inspiration and motorbike filth

Thanks Zed!
I’ll be sorting out my Kawasaki ZXR 400h first though- needs some tuning up.

Once it’s started it’s a beaut 😉

Read me!

“Thanks Zed!
I’ll be sorting out my Kawasaki ZXR 400h first though- needs some tuning up.”

No problemo.

We can help you with the Kwaker too….

Always happy to have a chat and give advice. If you need our help we have decades of experience in race tuning, bike restoration etc and an awesome workshop.

Personally I would see if you could have a few lessons from a professional or even an evening welding course.
As still s8tannorm says, there is a huge difference from self taught to being taught.
The forces going through the frame through acceleration and deceleration will be quite high and any week points in the steel work/ welds could cause quite a serious failure. I’d advise doing your research to understand how to set a welder up correctly. i.e. amps, gas pressure, wire speed, wire size etc. Then there’s preping the steel, what happens when you hit rust? There can be many variables that could effect the quality of the weld.
This sute might help you.
Good luck.

Good luck by the way. Projects are great fun.

zed do you have a web site about your CR??

I’m self taught. I’ve built a few pieces of gym equipment, a trailer, heavily modified a motorbike frame (and some other stuff). Nothing has failed yet, but it ain’t pretty.

Hey Juan, how are you?

CR? I’m not sure what you mean?

Aha! I think I figured it out? CR = Cafe Racer.

Here you go…

http://www.realclassic.co.uk/bonneville08042300.html

check out evening classes – they did welding in my area

clean petrol tank thoroughly ;+) the inside ….and tap

my experience of ally welding (I managed a working enduro bike stand and a long handled bike lift, unattactive but lasted over 10 years), my experience of ally welding – black, dark green, lighter green, light green, nothingness…. as all the metal had scampered off (luckily it was a test), paid some bloke, could hardly see marks… anybody can use welding gear, some people can use it to weld

Good for you, I’m just starting down the road a of a similar project.

One word of warning, CB450’s aint that cheap anymore – You may find a CB250,350 or 500, but it seems the 450’s are asking plenty for even something thats been dragged from the bottom of a pond. This is because people are spending a fortune to turn them into Drixton’s – Fantastic but spendy – Twin OHC motor thats a little harder to come by. Not ideal if your skint, unless you know of a stock of them for cheap cheap then ill take 2…..

That and now ive started my own cafe project (about 3 months ago) i can tell you everything costs about 3 times as much as you budget for….

Good luck – let me know how your getting on.

did you really made the whole project yourself zeds? That is amazing…

juan – Member
did you really made the whole project yourself zeds? That is amazing…

We certainly did Juan, it’s what we do…

We just rebuilt a 1932 BSA engine that the owner found in a river (mad!) and he is more than chuffed as you just can’t buy parts for these now let alone a new engine! It’s fired up and working very well too.
We specialise in this kind of thing. We have the knowledge, the tools and the experience – I’ll pload the uphotos, it’s pretty amazing!

It’s all about the bike. I’ve ridden some really old bikes and they are 1,000,000 time the modern bike for sheer feel, fun and feeling.

There’s nothing like getting an old classic back on the road. And that’s where they should be – not polished in a shed somewhere but used.

Don’t get me wrong, modern bikes are fantastically good but they don’t have the soul, fun and experience of their ancestors…..

And here we are…

I bought a mig between Xmas and new year for repairing my landrover

Started welding scraps

Overlap and butting – no pretty but after cutting up and inspecting look to get good penetration. It’s certainly solidly stuck I battered one butt about with a hammer in a vice till it broke and the metal round the weld broke first

Replaced the passenger foot well in my landy last week and my next task is to do a couple of small plates on the chassis

(limited) experience prep is 99% of the weld – my first overlap weld was pish cause I didn’t finish the edge and when clamped TE edge was lifted off the lower plate and kept blowing through the top sheet.

Once I prepped it Propper I got a good weld and no holes – like wise – your edges need to be square and prepped for a nice butt .

Biggest revelation to me came today in the form of a cheapo auto darkening mask – makes things much easier than the flip down thing I had !

Should maybe add I had a shot at a bit of arc and brazing at uni about 5 years ago and have had a brief shot of a mates sip gasless mig so I’m no entirely new to the concept – like wise at uni we studied the theory behind the processes and what makes a good weld – but nothing beats hands on experience !

Op – get it on here when it’s done, or get some more advice: http://pbmagforum.co.uk/index.php?s=7f8a2d4a49ad82556d82fb5c4252281e&showforum=8

“Any welding tips? “

There used to be a time when it was possible to sign up for evening classes at a local school, college etc. but they seem to have sold all their equipment or just given up. But that would have been the way to go about learning and getting the work done at the same time for minimal cost to you. Still worth looking into.
If you have access to an oxy-acetylene set then it can be used for brazing / bronze-welding, OA welding, plus aluminium can be welded with OA.

http://www.welddownunder.com/video_menu.htm
Although the Dillon/Henrob/Cobra DHC torch is an expensive way to get a (surprisingly heavy) torch.
The Meco torch demonstrated by tinmantech on youtube is lightweight and capable of doing steel and aluminium welding, but still a bit expensive.
Although a decent Mig torch will do, but still expensive.
You can hire welding kits, which is one way of keeping the cost down even if it is costly to have it for more than a week or so at a time it should (idealy) be in good usable condition (or you can get your money back, maybe). So you can concentrate on using it, and not trying to fix a cheap / unreliable secondhand set.

http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pdf/rtl_2010_moto_tech.pdf

ER70S2 filler wire (or ER70S6) is mild steel but is good for any steel that you will be welding : mild steel, cromoly, Reynolds 631, 853 etc.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=84hF-qoR5I8C&pg=SA16-PA1&lpg=SA16-PA1&dq=tony+foale+weld&source=bl&ots=FYE3sIR6Lg&sig=ZQwxizx-C037zxPQK6GDjZPoj-Y&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

Youtube is as good a source of info as most places: type in chopper weld, bike weld, brazing, propane braze etc.

Thanks for the input everybody!

I wont be starting such a project till i can get a house with a garden, a balcony has limited space 🙄 and dont worry, i wont be riding anything unless its safe- i’ll pay someone to weld my mistakes if they’re crap!! LOL

Zed- that Bonnie project is right up my street, i can learn lots from that kinda thing!

The Honda CB is indeed expensive these days, i want to bring a bike back from death row and ride it- so im looking at a variety of stuff. Any suggestions for donor bikes?
I’d love a Triton- hey gotta dream!

Basically, whatever i can find dumped unloved in a breakers yard….

Don’t get me wrong, modern bikes are fantastically good but they don’t have the soul, fun and experience of their ancestors…..

And here we are…

Can I have your babies now…:D

get some one who can weld to give you a few pointers. welding is easy it’s welding well that takes a bit of skill and a lot of practice.

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/shortage-of-welders-ua-video.html

Here is my current muse – I have my engine off getting blasted ready for paint while I strip the frame in shed. It wont be far off this… But its gonna cost – 🙁

I would look at something like an early 80’s Jap machine – Yam XS250, Honda CX500, Suz GS500 –

Great show on Discovery Turbo – Cafe Racer. Check it out…..

Honda CB360 Café Racer

Great show on Discovery Turbo – Cafe Racer. Check it out…..

Yup- brilliant programme isnt it? Ive been glued to it since it came on- it’s where i’ve got my motivation from.

Love the Ace bikes Honda CB450. In black with gold detailing ….. dribble……

I tought myself to weld and built a subframe for my bsa to carry huge amounts of luggage for a world tour. Plenty strong enough but not too pretty

MIG welding was easy

Zedsdead – might have a deal for you – remember that enfield? I need some work done on MY BSA in exchange. email me if interested

Hell yeah – my CB will somewhere between that and the 360 in the picture.

I want more colour than the usual UK built silver and black Tritons and the like. So I have found a VW colour from the ’76-’78 that ill paint it in with a metal flake stripe. The engine is off at the vapour blasters at the moment getting cleaned before its painted.

Ill soon have a build link going on somewhere before long….

Heres my previous bike- a CB400 Superfour.
Just wondering for the purists out there, how would this go down as a cafe racer modification? It’d be a more modern version of the CB450.
Having ridden around on it for a few years, i reckon it’d be pretty good- it handled really well and with a bit of a tune i think it’d be sweet. Certainly would be reliable! Sold it for £900, so i reckon i could pick up a munter for £500 or less.

Its not really the same thing – I suppose its a classic ish looking bike but a cafe racer it is not

How about using a hinkley bonneville engine / frame?

How about using a hinkley bonneville engine / frame?

Thats lovely that bike- saw it on Cafe Racer on Discovery.
Doubt id find one of those for my measly budget. Something somehow also drew me to a Kawasaki Mach 3- not sure if thats up to it though. And pretty rare aswell.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Hinckley bonnies have been round a while now and were not expensive.

How about basing it round a single then? Go for manx norton style. xt motors must be around

Welding is easy but it takes many years to get good at it. For what you want, it’s got to be structurally safe at speed, I would recommend getting a pro to do the actual welding.

Psssst! Wanna see some REALLY sexy café racers?

Look here: http://www.deus.com.au/gallery/

Psssst! Wanna see some REALLY sexy café racers?

And here you go. The real deal…

And still used in anger. Like it should be…