Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 43 total)
  • buying ti frames from china your experinces please
  • karnali
    Free Member

    just got a quote from xcad for a ti road frame works out about 450 incl shipping, its eith this or a van nich or planet x in the 700-800 mark.
    would love to hear ow it worked out for folks who have done the buying direct, would you do it again or go or the xtra money to ge the warranty

    ta

    tinribz
    Free Member

    I just ordered a carbon one if it is any help, am jumping the gun a bit but here is the latest:

    Getting excited now hoping it might turn up tomorrow. I got it via 'carbonzone' on ebay but I beleive they are http://www.greatkeenbike.com who I thought also did Ti frames but there doesnt seem to be any on the website now.

    I ping-ponged a fair few emails and they are helpful although the time diffence makes for slow progress. Tried to keep the English simple too. Paid via paypal, so far so good.

    druidh
    Free Member

    I got one a couple of years back. Bought from an ebay shop I'd already used for some smaller items. It's the equivalent of an Airborne Lancaster or Van Nicholas Zion.

    Very straightforward – I ordered it and it arrived safely and promptly.

    Cost me a whole £360 (delivered) – but than the exchange rate was quite a bit more favourable.

    It has performed admirably since then, either on local trails, commuting or loaded off-road touring in the Scottish Highlands.

    I've had no issues with the quality or the finish. I guess that was the major risk in buying it "off the page".

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    epo-aholic
    Free Member

    druidh – did you get skinned by customs for tax/duty, etc?

    druidh
    Free Member

    Nope – nowt at all. Dunno how it all works. Seems that sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. I've never been able to make any sense of it.

    pushbikerider
    Free Member

    Handily enough I'm collecting together peoples experiences with XACD, have a peek here:

    http://www.spanner.org.uk

    karnali
    Free Member

    hi thanks for the info so far, i have had a drawing back from them for a raod frame with rack mounts on it. I think ith the exchange rate it will ome in at aroun £480 the other options i have open to me are a van nich tempest at 727 incl fork and headset or a euros £770 incl fork and headset from fatbirds.

    Am i correct in thinking if i get charged imprt it will be 15% so around 70 quid and then vat on top is that 20% now so possibly another 90. I could either get lucky and get chargd no extra or it could come out at 640

    I'm edging towards buying the van nich, pluses are i know the cost and i get a warranty, downside no rack mounts although i was seeing that as a bonus. I'm also thinking the xacd one will be 600 with a headset and fork anyway.

    i'll ponder for longer.

    thanks for all the help

    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member

    The frame detailing on the VN Zion is nice.

    pushbikerider
    Free Member

    Your thoughts about the import duty sound fair, it's like two lots of vat as a worst case scenario. It also depends on the declared value of the frame on the customs form…

    The other reason you'd consider XACD would be that you can spec whatever you like, ie. it's a full custom frame. If you're happy with the Van Nic frame as it is and want the security of dealing with a 'known' company then the decision pretty much makes itself.

    I like the look of the belt drive on that Van Nic frame – I'm surprised it's not got SS style dropouts to tension it with though, maybe the newer one's are less fussy?

    tinribz
    Free Member

    Wohoo!

    [/end thread hijack]

    If I was getting a ti frame I'd go for more relaxed audax touring angles like the Youkon I guess, but they cost like twice £450?

    thepodge
    Free Member

    That looks very nice indeed

    pushbikerider
    Free Member

    Mmm; tidy!

    karnali
    Free Member

    very nice indeed, i'm toying between the van nich euros and planet x ti sportive, geometry looks identical but bigger clearances on teh planet x but alas more money. the other option is ot go with xacd but get 2 frames prob a cx or hardtail as the shipping and bank costs remain the same so it makes each frame 100 cheaper than buying individually. so they work out about 390 each i think will do some more thingking

    pushbikerider
    Free Member

    karnali – I’ve just had a chance to blog about a chap who got a touring/expedition/CX frame made by XACD if you’re interested:

    http://www.spanner.org.uk/?p=757

    tinribz – just out of interest did you get a chance to weigh your frame before you built it up?

    tinribz
    Free Member

    tinribz – just out of interest did you get a chance to weigh your frame before you built it up?

    Erm no,

    But here is another pic anyway;

    aP
    Free Member

    Wow those levers really point at the sky.

    druidh
    Free Member

    No braking while in the drops then?

    haggis1978
    Full Member

    you get what you pay for. Why not spend that money on a decent steel road frame as opposed to a cheap Ti one? i don’t think the extra £300-400 is just for a warranty 😕 Check out Steve Potts blog on his website for an explanation to what fusion welding is. This might help in your decision. Steve Potts incidentally is one of the finest titanium frame builders on the planet so knows what he’s talking about

    hora
    Free Member

    I’d love to have a longtravel ti hardtail from China- any of the above experiences/suppliers do these?

    tragically1969
    Free Member

    Can i just echo the thoughts above about your lever positioning, have you got 2 elbows on each arm or something ? That is wrong on so many levels !

    hora
    Free Member

    Steve Potts incidentally is one of the finest titanium frame builders on the planet so knows what he’s talking about

    Call me cynical but he probably has a small interest in promoting higher pricing etc.

    haggis1978
    Full Member

    As i said Hora, you get what you pay for. Does that mean that the full sus bike you buy from Ellsworth is the same as the cheap halfords job? I’m not saying the bike from xcad would be rubbish as if they made the Van Nicholas bikes then they can’t be bad but are they using the exact same grade of tubing with the same butting and machined dropouts and attention to detail on a frame half the price? Come one get real.
    Have a look at Lynskey, they make frames for everyone and there’s no way you can tell me that the same attention to detail goes into one of their On-one 456 Ti frames (good frame, yes ok) they used to make as what goes into the top of the range Lynskey Helix tubed machine. If it was me then i’d set a budget and have a look at all the options in tht price range. Has the OP thought of buying a second hand Ti bike? I just picked up what i perceive to be a bargain Litespeed full bike for what Karnali is talking about paying for a Van Nich frame

    druidh
    Free Member

    Tell me again how those American welders are so much ore betterer than their Chinese equivalents. I loves a good giggle of an evening.

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    druidh – Member
    Tell me again how those American welders are so much ore betterer than their Chinese equivalents…

    They’re betterer at shouting out how wunnerful they are, and they use emotive words, so they gotta be much gooderer than those [insertracistwords]chinese welders [/insertracistwords] and also they’re gnarly dudes who ride fixies with the Polar Bears.

    haggis1978
    Full Member

    Because they’ve been doing it 20 years longer 😆 Are you seriously trying to tell me that an XCAD frame is as good as a Potts or an Eriksen or a Litespeed?? What one would you honestly rather have? I’ve had Taiwanese built titanium frames and US built ones and i know which are better. Again i’m not saying the Taiwanese ones are shit but US built is better. If you want to start an argument and start using racist words then you go ahead. I was merely stating the obvious that the man can buy a better frame 2nd hand. How many Ti bikes have you owned druid?

    turboferret
    Full Member

    Is we use this logic we can say that American cars are better than Japanese ones 😆

    Cheers, Rich

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    Jeez haggis you really have been sucked in.

    hora
    Free Member

    …or maybe they have the ability to mimic, learn/catch up and bring in the skills en-mass?

    Scary how its taken ’20yrs’ for US manufacturers to get to this point and ‘how long’ for the far east to realise theres a market for over-exploited consumers in the west to focus on. 🙄

    I think part of the feeling that US made is better is the “feel good factor”. You buy a premium product, pay that $$$ extra and feel that you must be getting the best. When in reality it possibly is better but you’d really need to be a cycling god to notice it.

    For me, the Chinese/far east-Ti fill the gap between overpriced ti and cheap steel. Its a expensive steel frame thats lighter than steel.

    haggis1978
    Full Member

    again i’m not saying the chinese/far east stuff is rubbish, by all means they churn out more frames over there than anyone so they have to be fantastic at it. And yes admittedly there is that feel good factor as well but no-one has answered my question, can you honestly say you would rather have a far eastern built mass produced Ti frame over one custom designed and built in the US?

    scholarsgate
    Free Member

    what about custom designed and built in the far east over a custom designed and built in the US?

    ourmaninthenorth
    Full Member

    can you honestly say you would rather have a far eastern built mass produced Ti frame over one custom designed and built in the US?

    If a material price differential, I’d have no problem with that.

    marsdenman
    Free Member

    can you honestly say you would rather have a far eastern built mass produced Ti frame over one custom designed and built in the US?

    Sorry haggis – that’s not comparing apples with apples is it?
    If all things were exactly the same – tubeset, welders abilities, machining tolerances etc, such that the only thing separating them was the price (far east being less expensive) then i’m sure a lot would be bought from the far east…
    imo – a bit more expensive (at retail) from the states to due higher labour, fair enough, significantly more expensive from the USA = little justification other than the cost of ‘exclusivity’ for want of a better word, that and the cost of the marketing to support the exclusivity which also goes onto the retail cost of the bespoke jewellery..

    edit – this from a guy who rides an 06 Gary Fisher – their top of the range hard tail at the time.
    When I first opened the box I marveled at the quality of the welds, anodising etc on the ‘american beauty’ – only to turn it over and learn it was made in Taiwan…..

    haggis1978
    Full Member

    if if if if if? then yes i’d be buying from over there as well. But show me the best custom Ti frame from the far east? what is it? and is it comparable to a Moots or and Indy Fab or a Seven? IS the welder as good? Does it have the same grade of tubing or better? Are the processes that involve making a frame the same. Too many Ifs for me. I’ll be riding my Kent Eriksen for many years to come, happy knowing that i paid to have a bike built from the finest Ti builder on the planet at this moment in time, with awards to prove it. As i said i’ve had QUALITY taiwan built Ti frames and quality US built frames and i KNOW which is better workmanship. You can all jump in and say what you want but i don’t hear anyone saying the’ve had frames from both continents (like me!) and when someone comes a long that has then maybe i’ll listen to their opinion. So now please take this anyway you want “get it right up ye!” 😈 😆

    timdrayton
    Free Member

    Ive owned airbornes and an enigma and had lots of gos on the top of the line merlin.

    To be honest, the only discernable difference was cosmetic.

    Merlins and litespeeds have lovely finishing, lovely welds and little engravings and dropout detailing, do they ride differently?

    No

    Geometry and kit are what make any noticeable difference in frames made of the same material imho

    Sorry haggis but like most boutique ti frame owners you think it is imbued with some magic american fairy dust, its not you’ve spent around £750 for some nice weld detailing, some decals and a smug feeling.

    Munqe-chick
    Free Member

    (Mr MC posting)

    a friend of ours has a custom Eriksen road frame and there was more care and skill in one dropout weld on that bike than my entire Lynskey-built Litespeed. I must have spent an hour just pouring over it, it was stunning.

    So the argument isnt even Far-eastern vs US as there are different strata in the US market (and even within a single brand no doubt).

    haggis1978
    Full Member

    Thanks for the support Mr MC, Kents frames are fantastic 😀 Tim you’ve had a few goes on a top of the range Merlin? everyone knows merlin lost their way when Rob Vandermark left and started Seven but no one has answered what one they would rather own!

    timdrayton
    Free Member

    Yep clearly i would rather own the prettier bike, and us frames are prettier

    But the purpose of a weld is to hold the tubes together not to look pretty, so do you accept that the premium for US built frames (£750+) is purely cosmetic?

    And if so then its not worth it imho

    druidh
    Free Member

    What if a welder from Taiwan goes over to the US and gets a job for Lynskey? Is there something magical in the air over the US which suddenly imbibes him with special powers?

    haggis1978
    Full Member

    i’m saying he maybe has access to better materials, he maybe has access to further/better training. Are you really still trying to argue this? If a man is at the top of his game (Steve Potts/Kent Eriksen) and has 30 years experience behind him, is he going to be better than a guy who has been doing it for 5-10 years? yes. I am a Mechanical Technician in the oil and gas industry and i have been doing this job for 5 years, if i go and train with a guy who has been doing the job for 30 years and who has ripped the guts out of all types of compressors, pumps and gas turbines, will i learn from him and become a better mechie tech? yes!! I can’t believe you are still trying to tell me a custom Taiwanese/chinese frame is comparable to a custom US one and your examples are ludicrous! Special powers?! get a grip! Please read post number 10 in the thread below for an example of a previous Van Nicholas owners opinion on his new Litespeed. I’m removing this thread from my favourites now as it seems what gets said on (plenty of) other forums about STW members is true. Opiniated and somewhat lacking in the ability to understand good reasoning ie STUPID. Haggis has left the building. 8)

    PS get it right up ye ya bunch of zoomers! 😆

    http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=113204

    Macavity
    Free Member

    “just got a quote from xcad for a ti road frame works out about 450 incl shipping”
    The cost of even the tubing for a decent titanium (Ti alloy 6/4 3/2.5 etc double butted tubing) is around £40 per foot (or there abouts, probably more) . A frame uses around 13 feet (if just plain gauge), if double butted then there is going to be some wastage with bits trimmed off the ends.
    So 450 quid seems acceptable and if its welded together OK then thats a bonus.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 43 total)

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