Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)
  • Buying a house with no building regs for loft the conversion
  • mudmuncher
    Full Member

    Hi,

    Buying a house where the loft was converted around 25 years ago and it has come to light the current owners don’t know if the previous owners got building regs.

    They counted the room as a bedroom on the details, but is that correct if they don’t know or can’t prove it ever passed building regs?

    I’m thinking of putting in an on-suite in the loft room, but if I do that and get building regs is the inspector likely to pull me up on the conversion. The indemnity insurance seems a waste of time as you can’t disclose anything to the council so I guess if I show them the on-suite it would invalidate the insurance for the main conversion?

    nealglover
    Free Member

    Personally I would ask them to get it signed off before purchase.
    Or have the house revalued without the extra room.

    Without the correct paperwork, it’s a loft space, and should be valued as such.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    So the current owners haven’t approached the council to find out if BR are in place? That suggests they definitely know they aren’t!

    If they’ve not passed BR, loft rooms shouldn’t be classed as bedrooms, or used as them, and if you’re planning to pay for the house on the basis of x bedrooms, you’re about to be done over.

    The key question is whether the rooms would pass present BR (unlikely if done that long ago), and how much it would cost to bring them up to spec, or whether that’s even possible in the space you’ve got.

    On the most basic level, would you be happy using it as a child’s bedroom in the knowledge that fireproofing and escape routes are not up to scratch?

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    dantsw13
    Full Member

    I’m pretty certain they know full well it has no Building regs approval, but are trying to fob you off.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    We have a converted loft that was done without building regs on the understanding that it was definitely not a bedroom.

    We do happen to store a double bed up there. And sheets. And it is fully boarded, painted, has lights, leccy, blinds etc. But it is definitely not a bedroom and we couldn’t claim it as such if we sold.

    mudmuncher
    Full Member

    Well it definitely wouldn’t pass todays regs, but I think it possibly would have been ok 25 years ago when it was done.

    Am I right in thinking if we got the inspector in they would apply todays regs rather than what was in place 25 years ago.

    I don’t think the council hold records much beyond 10-15 years so it genuinely could have had them but no way of knowing. Structurally it looks ok with deeper 8″ joists, but I think it could cause us issues when we sell (unless we don’t count it as a bedroom).

    spooky_b329
    Full Member

    If the sellers (or you) approach the council, that will void any indemnity policy before it starts, so you don’t necessarily want them to ask the council without considering all options.

    If there is no building regs and the room appears to be non-compliant (headroom/tiny stairs/lack of fire doors etc) then really it should be priced as a box room not a bedroom.

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    Main questions are for me, wired smokes, protected stairway, access egress ability via velux or dorma whichever it may have?
    Is it priced locally as an x amount of bedroom house or less than current market trend for that number of bedrooms?

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Without building regs you have a good position for a downward price negotiation on the house, as they’ll hit this issue with any buyer and they know it. They’re just trying it on to see if they can get you to pay over the odds. Ask they to get BR sign off or reduce the price by £20k.

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    ^^see my above question first^^
    Re pricing.

    simons_nicolai-uk
    Free Member

    Just remember that even if you get past this now (your solicitor / mortgage co allow it through) doesn’t mean the same will happen in future.

    On the most basic level, would you be happy using it as a child’s bedroom in the knowledge that fireproofing and escape routes are not up to scratch?

    This is the real issue. What ways isn’t it regs compliant now and do you think those are an issue?

    mudmuncher
    Full Member

    Main questions are for me, wired smokes, protected stairway, access egress ability via velux or dorma whichever it may have?
    Is it priced locally as an x amount of bedroom house or less than current market trend for that number of bedrooms?

    It has wired alarms and veluxes you could get out of (albeit onto a fairly steeply pitched roof). I’d feel confident about getting out in a fire, but not sure I’d be 100% happy about my kids given the potential drop from the roof.

    It’s a fairly quirky house so not really a going rate that could be applied for the number of beds. Even without the regs the loft would still add value I guess and I’ll probably use it as an office rather than a bedroom.

    What ways isn’t it regs compliant now and do you think those are an issue?

    It’s not got the self closing fire doors downstairs and it’s a spiral staircase – I don’t think its a big deal practically, but maybe an issue for future buyers. Also not sure if the veluxes are the right height off the ground.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    What ways isn’t it regs compliant now and do you think those are an issue?

    Buying without BR approval, just means you’ll have problems selling it down the line at the next buyer’s solicitor will ask exactly the same Qs. So you’d be daft not to negotiate the appropriate discount for lack of documentation.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    It’s difficult because many old houses have features that would not pass current regulation, lot conversations and other features and regulations are not retrospective.

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    The way to approach this is to think to the future.

    You are about to sell the house you managed to avoid all the regulations on. The market is crap, but you’ve got a hot buyer.

    The buyer does a proper investigation and discovers the breaches of the regs.

    How do you feel about discounting it £20-40,000?

    johndoh
    Free Member

    We bought and sold a house with a loft room – clearly not up to current spec. but it was when the house was built 100 years ago. We were told and we repeated when selling on that it had been renovated rather than converted and had no problems buying or selling.

    glasgowdan
    Free Member

    A lot of this chat is misinformed.

    Loft conversions done before building regulations came in ARE absolutely fine to be called bedrooms. The only query you might have would be settled by getting a specific surveyor out to assess it for safety.

    Would you try and get a 5k discount because the last rewire was done 8 years ago and wouldn’t pass current regulations? Or 10k discount because the driveway isn’t permeable and run off goes onto the road?

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Loft conversions done before building regulations came in ARE absolutely fine to be called bedrooms.

    Building reg approval of some kind has been a requirement for this kind of conversion since the mid 1960s, I believe. So if it was done before then, all well and good to call it a bedroom.

    timba
    Free Member

    it’s a spiral staircase – I don’t think its a big deal practically,

    Until you try to swap the furniture 🙂
    You seem to like the house, ask an independent surveyor for their opinion on a) the works and b) the price

    ScottChegg
    Free Member

    Would you try and get a 5k discount because the last rewire was done 8 years ago and wouldn’t pass current regulations? Or 10k discount because the driveway isn’t permeable and run off goes onto the road?

    Yes.

    This is STW; anything that isn’t 12 speed Di2 is worthless

    dannybgoode
    Full Member

    We sold our last house with a loft conversion but no BR.

    Same as some others have posted – house was built in the 1890’s, the loft converted at some point between 1890 and when we bought it – our seller didn’t have the details when we bought it, we just said the same when we sold it.

    We offered to buy BR indemnity and the buyer was happy with this.

    Would it pass today’s BR’s- certainly not but we still sold it as a bedroom.

    johndoh
    Free Member

    Here you go – here is the house we sold as a 3 bed house even though it would stand no chance of passing building regs (no fire escape, only access via another bedroom etc).

    As I said before, we bought it on the understanding the room always existed and had simply been renovated at some point.

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-26689929.html

    edlong
    Free Member

    It’s not got the self closing fire doors downstairs

    Is that a requirement? We had ours done c. 5 years ago and it was signed off – we got fire doors, but they’re not self-closing.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Is that a requirement? We had ours done c. 5 years ago and it was signed off – we got fire doors, but they’re not self-closing.

    It may well not have been the requirement even that recently, probably not, given that they signed it off. Regs change all the time, it doesn’t mean that work done prior to the change then needs to be put right. Putting a self-closer on the door might a good idea if you’ve got a kid sleeping up there though. Kids (and parents) don’t always remember to close doors at night.

    In the case of the OP, if the loft conversion is, as he said, approximately 25 years old, then it should have been signed off at the time. If it was, then there is no legal issue, only potentially a safety one WRT fireproofing and escape routes.

    By the sounds of it, it cannot be regularised now without an awful lot of work, and if there is no BR approval, should not be described or marketed as a bedroom.

    If the extra bedroom is contributing to the asking price, the OP is going to be paying over the odds.

    johndoh
    Free Member

    If the room was created prior to the 1984 Building Regulations act came into force (oddly in November 1985) then he could. So, given the estimated conversion date it may well have been (or at least he could say that when he sells on).

    And if it *did* get approval post 1985 then surely the documentation w/should be available via the local council planning portal?

    simons_nicolai-uk
    Free Member

    Is that a requirement? We had ours done c. 5 years ago and it was signed off – we got fire doors, but they’re not self-closing.

    The ‘self-closing’ requirement for residential fire doors got dropped more than 5 years back. Everyone just took them off the doors. When we did our Victorian loft we didn’t fit fire doors in the rest of the house – it was acceptable to fit linked, mains, smoke alarms in every room as an alternative.

Viewing 26 posts - 1 through 26 (of 26 total)

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