Viewing 27 posts - 1 through 27 (of 27 total)
  • Buying a house in breach of covenant
  • chojin
    Free Member

    Merely hours before looking to exchange contracts on a house purchase, our conveyancer have seemingly tried to sneak a minor detail past us regarding a single storey extension which doesn’t have “covenant consent”, and the local authority does not hold a copy of the planning permission.

    Is this a show stopper? Would you buy a house under these conditions?

    I received the email late today and will be calling them first thing in the morning for further advice, I was just wondering what the collective’s thoughts on it were…

    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    Yes and no! 😉

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    Your lender won’t like it. If you are a cash buyer then it’s up to you.
    It’s too late to get indemnity insurance if you’ve already spoken to the council.
    Did it have planning? It must be very old if they don’t have a copy on file.

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    chojin
    Free Member

    The house was built in 1996 and the extension was completed in 2010 – We have a copy of a completed work certificate issued by the council pertaining to building regs, but that’s not planning permission is it?

    It’s now causing me to question the impartiality of our conveyancers as they sent a letter to us full of legal jargon, but clearly stating (like all their correspondence so far) that the onus is upon to check the details and say whether we’re happy or not. They never offer advice. It’s almost like they want us not to understand what we’re signing so they ultimately get their fees.

    The odd thing was everything had been taking ages to go through until this point and our conveyancers have been very vague about the cause of the hold up.
    Then today out of the blue (before I knew of this issue), the seller’s estate agent calls me as a matter of urgency trying to get us to exchange and complete really quickly.
    It was only after this that out conveyancer sent their email asking us to sign everything and return the forms to them, slipping in this “information” as a side note.

    The cynic in me is shouting this isn’t coincidence.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    We have a copy of a completed work certificate issued by the council pertaining to building regs, but that’s not planning permission is it?

    Correct, the two are seperate.

    IIRC after X years it’s too late for local planning to do anything about a build without permission.

    For an applicant to succeed with an application for a Certificate of Lawfulness (under Section 191 of the Town & Country Planning Act 1990) they have to prove that a building has been erected and used as a dwelling house for 4 years or more.

    Providing the evidence is precise and unambiguous and the council has no evidence of its own or from others to contradict the applicant’s version of events, then the application should be granted.

    In the light of recent case law and the provisions of the Localism Act 2011 the council had to assess whether the building had been deliberately concealed, but concluded that it had not and so it granted the certificate.

    nickjb
    Free Member

    Does it need planning? The permitted development rights are pretty generous if it has them. As above if its been up a while its unlikely to be chased by the council. The covenant thing is trickier. Who would enforce it? Possibly no one if its been up a while.

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    I’d be wanting to know the details of the covenant, and whether the developer is enforcing it.

    I’d also want to know, as nick says, whether the extension was built under permitted development- you’ll need to at least check with the council whether the property has pd- for some newer developments pd rights are removed as a condition of the house build being given planning permission.

    mellowyellow
    Free Member

    Does it actually use the word covenant?

    The term as far as I know is used by house builders as a way of protecting/controlling a development. A covenant can often stipulate no front garden walls or hedging, no division between neighboring frontage etc.
    Permissible development if I remember correctly is 30 Sq M, so may not actually need planning consent.

    chojin
    Free Member

    Thank you guys – You’ve armed me with a few ideas and questions on how to proceed and I really appreciate it. I’m just a little peeved we’ve only been made aware of the issue so late in the whole process, especially after months and months of waiting!

    Edit: Just seen post above – Yes it specifically uses the word covenant. The builder, as far as i’m aware, went out of business in 2014…

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    The vendor can pay for am insurance policy on this.

    Whether it just pays for the extension to be demolished if there’s a court ruling or legal fees defending it I don’t know.

    We did something similar when we bought. 15 years later the extension is still there and no one’s mentioned it.

    uponthedowns
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t worry too much about the covenant. I doubt its enforceable or there’s anyone around that wants to enforce it. I’d be more worried about buying a property with an extension that doesn’t have planning permission. How much do you want/need this house? If you can live without it I’d be severely tempted to walk away right now.

    tonyg2003
    Full Member

    I’m with the above posters. Buying a house with an extension and no proven planning permission…. walk away

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    PD rights today are not the same as they were a few years ago. The rules were relaxed so extensions today can be larger. Not sure of the dates though! You’ll need to do a bit of googling.
    If it’s been up as long as you say and there have been no dramas then it wouldn’t worry me if it didn’t have permission. Like I said before though, your lender might not be so keen.

    russyh
    Free Member

    I’m with Nick above, single storey…going to suggest it doesn’t need planning under permitted development. My old man is currently undergoing an extension and does not need planning.

    DavidBelstein
    Free Member

    Dear estate agent, please let the sellers solicitor know that we will be reducing our offer by 15k in light of recent information regarding a covenant and lack of planning permission. We hope that this can be accepted quickly so that all parties can complete at this late stage.

    Done!

    scaled
    Free Member

    My old man is currently undergoing an extension and does not need planning.

    How long will you be off the bike after surgery?

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t worry too much about the covenant. I doubt its enforceable or there’s anyone around that wants to enforce it.

    This. Covenants mean nothing unless the other party of the Covenant is about to enforce it – is the builder really going to invest time and cash enforcing a covenant that he no longer has any interest in. Covenants rarely mean anything in the real world because the other party has almost always moved on long ago.

    Planing permission after 7 years shouldn’t be a problem should it? I thought there was a 4 year limit?

    Dear estate agent, please let the sellers solicitor know that we will be reducing our offer by 15k in light of recent information regarding a covenant and lack of planning permission. We hope that this can be accepted quickly so that all parties can complete at this late stage.

    Done!

    But this as well, deffo use this as a lever to drop the price.

    chojin
    Free Member

    Dear estate agent, please let the sellers solicitor know that we will be reducing our offer by 15k in light of recent information regarding a covenant and lack of planning permission. We hope that this can be accepted quickly so that all parties can complete at this late stage.
    Done!

    Oh that is brutal.

    I like it!

    chojin
    Free Member

    So i’ve spoken to my solicitors – They’re going to try and find out whether the small single room extension was covered under PD. They’ve advised that since it’s past 4 years, any subsequent lack of planning permission cannot be enforced. Also, regarding the covenant to seek the builders’ permission before making external changes – That’s also unenforceable since they went out of business in 2014.
    The vendor has paid for indemnity insurance anyway – Is there anything else I should look to cover off?

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    You could perhaps apply for a lawful development certificate to make things easier in the future.

    https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/1app/guidance/guidance_note-lawful_development_certificates.pdf

    ourmaninthenorth
    Full Member

    Is there anything else I should look to cover off?

    Sounds like, subject to your lawyers confirming the rules around PP enforcement, you’re good to go. Just make sure that you get the benefit of the indemnity insurance (your lawyer will sort the mechanism for transfer to you).

    Doesn’t sound like a price chip is going to get you anywhere as the risk seems low.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t lose sleep over the covenant itself. Most of them are old, ignored, unenforceable, meaningless. Planning permission is another matter.

    NZCol
    Full Member

    WTF has your solicitor been doing up until this point would be my first question !

    jon1973
    Free Member

    WTF has your solicitor been doing up until this point would be my first question !

    Like virtually everyone else involved in the house buying/selling industry, they’re all totally incompetent.

    Sui
    Free Member

    nothing really to add, just to concur with;

    [/quote]jon1973 – Member
    WTF has your solicitor been doing up until this point would be my first question !
    Like virtually everyone else involved in the house buying/selling industry, they’re all totally incompetent.

    mellowyellow
    Free Member

    they went out of business in 2014

    A house builder that went out of business.. My god what where they doing wrong, Building houses is a licence to print money!

    ourmaninthenorth
    Full Member

    WTF has your solicitor been doing up until this point would be my first question !

    Running 80+ files in parallel for virtually no money and probably waiting on requests for information on planning from the seller’s conveyancers (who were themselves waiting for your sellers to get back to them).

    If anything is ripe for automation, this stuff is. If nothing else to put small high street legal firms out of their financial misery.

Viewing 27 posts - 1 through 27 (of 27 total)

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