so mrs-T-r had an accident in the car on monday morning.

car parked with its passenger door open dropping folk off behind a bus in the bus stop.

our car MSM and is in the middle of overtaking both vehicles when the parked car decides its time to leave – she drives into the rear of our front wheel and bends our wishbone inwards and the chassis leaves paint and dents every panel along the car from that point back and bursts both wheels on that side. – no damage on my front bumper/front wing valence and her front bumper and along the front of her car(even the passengers side bumper and bonnet) are the damaged parts. This pushed the rear of our car out and changed the direction we were traveling and we hit a bus. – all at low speed 15-20mph was the starting speed but we were in a heavy 4×4.

other cars denying she moved and that we drove into her – although damage says otherwise – but i dont trust the insurance company as far as i can throw them now – they already ruled against us and i phoned up fuming yesterday as they had no evidence at all to base that on – no photos of damage and had not spoken tothe independant witness who was in the car behind – they have reopened the case based on the photos i have sent in but im looking for more evidence.

Bus involved has got CCTV to the rear – has anyone ever been successful in getting hold of this ? i have the reg of the bus – and i have the time and the route and i have informed the insurance of all this but id like to cover my arse if i can as the womans started playing funny buggers.

There is a good chance if it is a regular bus taking fee paying passengers (as opposed to private coach, then they should have a hard drive based CCTV system.

Speak to the bus company and they should be able to provide this to you, if they will not, then the insurers should be able to instruct enquiry agents to obtain this from the bus company.

Speak to the bus company and they should be able to provide this to you,

I’d expect them to tell anyone other than the police to smeg off. Data protection concerns and all that.

Speak to the bus company and they should be able to provide this to you,
I’d expect them to tell anyone other than the police to smeg off. Data protection concerns and all that.

I would say this is certainly the case. Your not going to get that CCTV unless you get the police to investigate, and I im pretty sure they wont be interested.

so would i …. police were not involved unfortunantly as no one was hurt :((this bits thankfully though)

if you hit the bus they will already have downloaded the footage.
doubt they will just hand it over to you, but they would cooperate with the insurers i reckon, after all their vehicle was damaged too.
having been involved in a fair number of nonfault accidents over the years (im a bus driver) ive only ever been shown the cctv once.

ach well – still no harm in me asking – their bus was involved in the incident but totally not at fault so they may well provide it to the insurance company once prompted.

damage to the car corroborates the corsa driving into us at least and the operative i spoke to agreed when she saw the photos – how ever its not her decision she managed to reopen the case so someone can look into it.

ive also pushed them hard on the witness and the CCTV on the rear of the bus.

Make an official request to the bus company sent recorded delivery, they have 30 days to respond, but the images may be overwritten each day, so theyre lost to all,they may also say the cctv was not functioning a common problem.

you dont say which bus company it is, the system stagecoach use overwrites after 28 days.

When is CCTV covered by the Data Protection Act?

Most uses of CCTV will be covered by the Data Protection Act. This gives you the right to see information held about you, including CCTV images of you, or images which give away information about you (such as your car number plate).

…

You have the right to see CCTV images of you and to ask for a copy of them. The organisation must provide them within 40 calendar days of your request, and you may be asked to pay a fee of up to £10 (this is the maximum charge, set by Parliament). This is called a Subject Access Request. You will need to provide details to help the operator to establish your identity as the person in the pictures, and to help them find the images on their system.

CCTV and the Data Protection Act.

You van request the data under the Data Protection act and they have to furnish it to yourself. There is normally a charge of £10.00 for this. You have to be able to prove that the video contains images images of yourself or your car on it in order to be able to do.

I have successfully managed to do this after a coach driver drove straight at a group of cyclists. Unfortunately for the driver I used the coach company for my commute into London and knew they had camera’s requested the data and paid the fee.

Don’t be put off by them saying that they wont/cant give you the copy they are obliged to do so.

This will help

https://www.gov.uk/request-cctv-footage-of-yourself

Thanks Wordnumb, that’s as to why i stated I felt the bus company would provide it to you. (I work for an insurer that covers bus and fleet policies). If you are captured on that CCTV footage then you have a right to view that CCTV footage for an admin charge.

its first bus martymac.

wordnumb- thats a big help.

CCTV should remove any ambiguity – maybe we were in the wrong but i seriously doubt it unless we were trying to park perpendicular to the kerb between the bus and corsa at 15 mph using the handbrake.

I had similar to this in a cinema car park. Woman dithering about what space to go into, while I was waiting behind her. She had to reposition her car for a particular spot she had in mind, stuck her car in reverse and crashed into me. I was stationary.

She immediately went on the defensive, stating initially that I’d driven into her, then that I was trying to undertake her while she was reversing etc.
Initially insurance company said 50/50 at best, which I told them I was unwilling to accept. I sent in as many detailed pics of the damage, with a detailed step-by-step account of the accident using Google maps images of the car park layout inserted into Word and overlaid with arrows and coloured squares indicating the positions of the cars at each step.
The damage report from the garage apparently said the damage was consistent with her crashing into me the way I had said it happened, and didn’t concur with her version of events.

It took about 9 months, but eventually it was settled with me being 100% not at fault.
Sorry for whittling on, but I just wanted to explain the situation. While it was very frustrating at the time, it did work itself out in the end and it should be pretty clear from the damage to your car how the accident occurred.
For example, if she crashed into your wheel while you were overtaking the bus, presumably the wheels on your car were turned to the right and the impact pushed the wheel/wishbone forwards?? This damage could not have happened in the same way if you had crashed into her.

our wheels were straight – we were in the middle of the manuver having already moved into the passing position- our wheel is pushed inwards towards the chassis at the rear of the wheel- the girder of a wishbone is bent adn the chassis mount is pushed in at the rear –

and thats on a ladder chassis 4×4 not a tinfoil eurobox.

i would post photos but i dont think thats wise till the insurance shits sorted out.

Were I in TR’s position I’d head back to the spot and see if the bus stop is covered by any external CCTV (unless it’s a rural location where doing so would be a waste of time). I doubt the view from inside a bus will give much away, even if the windows are clear.

Am I correct in thinking that there were 2 buses?

One stationary on the left dropping passengers and an oncoming one that you were forced in to?

Both will almost certainly have front and rear facing cameras.I have a friend whose company fits and services the cameras for numerous bus companies. If you know which bus operators were involved I’ll see if he has any contacts that could help. I would think the local depot manager might be a good start.

neninja,

The way I read it there was 1 bus, in front of the other car and when the other car hit mrs t_r the collision twisted the steering and sent mrs t_r into the back of the bus.

1 bus stationary at the stop

1 car pulled in behind with doors open dropping folk off

over taking both

mid way through the manuover our car was struck in the side and the rear of the car was thrust sideways directing the front into the rear of the bus.

The fact you hit the parked bus in front does corroborate the fact that your rear end was pushed into the road aiming you at the bus. This would have been a lot less likely if you’d hit a stationary. The only other scenario that would fit the damage would be you cutting in front of the parked car, misjudging it, catching their wing. But this would have meant you were driving at a huge bus….

Most likely scenario is the parked car pulled out without looking or you were in the blind spot. Would have thought the insurance company would have started from that standpoint unless other evidence was provided. I’d be interested to know which insurance co it was. You never know how much value for money they are until you need them.

i work for an insurance company and we get CCTV footage from bus companies to accompany claims regularly. if you can’t get it from them yourself, your insurance company will definitely be able to.

EDIT- and there’s a good chance that the bus would have had at least 4 external cameras fitted, probably 6 (front, offside front and nearside front facing and the same but rear facing).

CCTV should remove any ambiguity – maybe we were in the wrong but i seriously doubt it unless we were trying to park perpendicular to the kerb between the bus and corsa at 15 mph using the handbrake.

So its not been ruled out as the cause then? 😉

I’d expect them to tell anyone other than the police to smeg off. Data protection concerns and all that.

As I understand it anyone who might be recorded by cctv covering a public place is entitled to a copy of any footage which shows them. You may have to pay a small fee to get it. If you have cctv at home and it takes in the pavement outside your home anyone caught on that can demand a copy although again you can charge a reasonable fee. An Austrian filmmaker made a whole movie using that method a few years ago see here

right ivespoken with the bus company

they have confirmed there is footage

they have confirmed that “if i was driving the frontera i would be making sure the insurance company had this footage”

they have confirmed “i” cant have it – your only entitled to it for personal use.

HOWEVER they have supplied details of their insurance – the claim referance and told me that their insurance will share the cctv footage with mine if asked.

“if i was driving the frontera i would be making sure the insurance company had this footage”

Nice result.

Good stuff, all the best with that.

**** sakes.

saved me calling the insurance.

they are saying we are still at fault – the other car still claims they were stationary.

ill stick photos up in 10.

Good News, OP!

It’s just a shame that in cases like this where the ‘at fault’ driver has accused you of causing the accident, they don’t get done for being big fat liars.

EDIT – oh dear….keep at it!

Well tell them you now want it for personal use.

they are saying we are still at fault – the other car still claims they were stationary.

This is before they’ve seen the bus footage I assume? Keep at them, the CCTV will prove who was right and who’s telling porkies.

As per the DPA you are entitled to the footage.

I can’t find anything on the ICO that says they can refuse if it’s not for personal use.

i justlost it with them

ive told them ill be disputing it until the CCTV shows that the car behind the bus was not dropping people off – they have ommited this from their statement claiming they were stationary waiting to pass the bus also.

The insurance co are pursuing the CCTV footage now.

Sorted then.

As per the DPA you are entitled to the footage.

I can’t find anything on the ICO that says they can refuse if it’s not for personal use.
I am not sure that the DPA protection act covers acts in public that dont cover personal or private data either.

OP dont sweat it you will win but it will take time
It took 12 months to wina case when the car came on to a roundabout and hit us – its obvious who has right of way but they decided to fight it

So many 50/50 offers that they were minded to accept etc and i won in the end as will you as you will get the footage

Shoudl be some serious penalties for tools who not only cause accidents but then lie about them afterwards as surely its perjury/attempted fraud

http://ico.org.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/cctv

Most uses of CCTV will be covered by the Data Protection Act. This gives you the right to see information held about you, including CCTV images of you, or images which give away information about you (such as your car number plate).

When can CCTV images be disclosed?

You have the right to see CCTV images of you and to ask for a copy of them. The organisation must provide them within 40 calendar days of your request, and you may be asked to pay a fee of up to £10.

Public authorities are subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000, or the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2000. This Act allows members of the public to request official information by writing to the public authority, who must respond within 20 working days. If the images are those of the person making the request, then the request would be handled under the Data Protection Act as a Subject Access Request. If, however, other people are identifiable in the CCTV pictures, then the images would be considered personal information and it is likely they would be exempt from the Freedom of Information Act.

That last bit might apply, but it might only be for ‘public authorities’ as opposed to bus companies.

But hopefully the insurance company will sort it.

trail rat – it is not your personal data captured on the CCTV images from the bus, it is your wife and the other drivers’, if they both appear.

So they are technically correct…

P.S and have a think about what you will say to the insurance company if the footage doesn’t support what your wife remembers. In times of stress people can get stuff wrong. Just saying like.

P.S unless you were in the car of course, which is not clear from your original post.

well hels – i wasnt asking for the data – i was asking for the correct proceedure for my partner to ask for the data from their company. when they told me the above.

If we are in tyhe wrong after seeing the CCTV then fair enough BUT hels – the reason im fighting this is that i do not believe the damage to our car could have been caused by hitting a stationary car unless we were sliding sideways. my front wheel is folded in at the rear and the tire burst – it has bent my wishbones and a bolt on part of the chassis INWARD – to the centre line of the vehicle – which given the 4×4 nature of the vehicle are bloody big girders it has bent my wing inwards at the rear – but hasnt touched the front of my lower wing. the upper wing and indicator are dented by the bus due to the height/colour of the damage but the bumper has no damage from the corsa.

the other small car has damage along the whole front of its car – mostly on the front drivers corner but all the way along the front to the passengers side bumper

the laws of physics say we were hit by a moving car to cause that damage. yet she claims she neither dropped folk off nor was she moving – she was merely traveling along the road and wanted to overtake the bus.

fingers crossed for the CCTV – TBH i think we might get 50:50 at best but the folding like a wet newspaper on the basis of lies has got me riled.

[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PtB2XrvsUJ8/Utfbaq9Lj7I/AAAAAAAAH-o/phOREQcsWTw/s400/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg[/img]

Both my front and rear tires were burst, front indicator and wing damage at the front was done by the bus. The rest by corsa

Damage to corsa was a small dent at the front of front wing , lots of paint off the frnt bumper, a dent in the passengers side bonnet lip and the passengers side bumper on the foglight.

Sorry to hear about this Terry. Hope u get it sorted. Ignore Hels, she’s trying to be helpful, but it doesn’t always come across that way. I suspect its a lost in translation thing 😉