• This topic has 41 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by Sui.
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  • Built doubles on natural Surrey trails (SSSI content)
  • no_eyed_deer
    Free Member

    Headed out for a glorious Surrey Hills ride this Sunday and re-rode some of my favourite trails. Except. Jeeezus. Holy Christ!!! What in God’s name has happened to some of those trails..?

    Quite clearly people have been busy with spades and things.

    Is this in any way responsible?

    Great stuff if you like DOUBLES (and are prepared for them). But these are multi-use trails – and one of them (e.g. white fridge) is even a FOOOTPATH fer’ Chris’ sake! And this had been dug out t.o.t.h.e.m.a.x.

    What gives, digger kids?

    No warnings of serious committed jumptastic action. Surely this is a bit dumb-ass? No warnings of crazy comitted trail features means someone will get hurt? SSSI means that ecological stuff will be damaged. Does no one think about anything but gnar?

    Digging gnar features on unmarked natural trails – good / bad:

    discuss. 🙂

    Nipper99
    Free Member

    It’s their right! Welcome to Open MTB 😉

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    Peaslake is just like Whistler, brah.

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    squoglybob
    Free Member

    I dunno, part of me likes to think it’s fine “the kid” in me whilst my more adult side thinks that SSSI designated land should be respected, that said I used to ride a trail for years on SSSI land when one day my path was halted by a Van some mine tape and some bearded archaeologists, they had found a Roman soldier buried in a shallow pit all curled up, I managed to see the remains including his footwear which were well decayed and the rest was just bones, long story short Oxford Archeology dug up the whole area looking for other burial sites, the newts and butterflies went straight out the window, so if it’s alright for them,

    no_eyed_deer
    Free Member

    It’s in all certainty technically illegal. Hard to see why anyone has the right to do this. Great. You get to create your technical trail feature, but you also cause all manner of damage to the environment and potentially – humans – riding your unofficial trail – along the way though..

    sofabear
    Free Member

    no_eyed_deer – Out of interest, which trails are you referring to? A few months ago I got a shock on one of the Winterfold trails because of the unknown-to-me gap jumps. Now if I haven’t ridden a Surrey Hills trail for a few months I take it easy on the first run.

    no_eyed_deer
    Free Member

    Pitch hill. Winterfold. Thereabouts. I have no idea where I really was, given I only ride their once a year or so, but the regular dug out gaps to the western side of this Surrey Hills run were unexpected and a little disconcerting!

    freeridenick
    Free Member

    Progression…

    none of those trails are natural in the first place.

    which footpath are you talking about? White fridge, whats that !

    sofabear
    Free Member

    Pitch hill. Winterfold. Thereabouts. I have no idea where I really was, given I only ride their once a year or so, but the regular dug out gaps to the western side of this Surrey Hills run were unexpected and a little disconcerting!

    I think you might be talking about Proper Bo on Pitch and Northern Monkey on Winterfold, both of which have caught me out too.

    sideshow
    Free Member

    Impact to wildlife. I was going to say SSSI is unwise but if it’s a footpath then it’s not off trail so I guess the impact to wildlife is still minimal. Though I’m no expert. Cutting new trails would be another matter there and should definitely be avoided, SSSIs should be respected.

    On the safety of mountain bikers, if you’re outside of a sanitized trail centre then common sense says don’t ride blind. Surely the joy of unmarked trails is that gnar features aren’t restricted like on official xc loops? If someone has made a jump too hard for you don’t complain just dig your own easier one!

    As to other trail users you’ll probably see complaints especially if it’s a footpath in the south east. Digging up an SSSI even though ecological impact may be limited on existing trails is not being a good ambassador for the sport. Plus being SSSI it’s probably illegal.

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    The trouble is with this sort of unsanctioned riding is a walker or other user will make a complaint, the rangers (or whoever) will investigate and probably pull down the trail feature, it gets rebuilt, it gets pulled down etc etc and eventually you end up with a ban on ANY riding in the immediate area.

    northerntom
    Free Member

    There has been a lot of digging recently up there, and whilst i ride most of the jumps that are built, I don’t necessarily agree with all.

    For example, the jump line that’s been built by Evian is a totally new trail, and hasn’t been built over anything else. However, some of the stuff over flytipper is now either go big or bugger off. Also, extra gaps on trails like secret santa don’t necessarily help matters.

    To be honest, I don’t dig, or maintain trails, and therefore don’t complain, and am, to a certain extent, indebted to the guys who do. So I would never complain, because in the main, it’s a lot more good than bad.

    In terms of environmental matters – a small jump being built is unlikely to affect much. Complete fragmentation of the forest from roads being built has a lot more impact, so trail use and maintenance isn’t an issue to me.

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    Nipper99 – Member

    It’s their right! Welcome to Open MTB

    Can you point me to any statement by OpenMTB or their members which condones illegal building?

    Stevet1
    Free Member

    Think northerntom puts it very well.
    If I were to build trail features I always make sure it’s either in clear line of sight with an alternate route, or on an area not currently being used by anyone(and not an SSSI!). The amount of work it takes to build even the smallest of obstacles means I want to avoid conflict with other users to try and avoid months of hard work being removed in an afternoon.

    Gotama
    Free Member

    Northerntom covers it perfectly.

    No warnings of serious committed jumptastic action. Surely this is a bit dumb-ass?

    Apart from the big f-off take off ramp?

    given I only ride their once a year or so

    It’s not a trail centre and you don’t ride there regularly so maybe look before going over it? And on the main trails which aren’t specific jump lines I can think of one, perhaps two jumps that don’t have chicken lines round the outside.

    no_eyed_deer
    Free Member

    …’Flytipper’ – that’s what I meant by ‘white fridge’ 😆

    Amazing how many trails seem to be named after discarded junk. I think ‘white fridge’ might actually be near Nant yr Arian… or maybe there was one I used to know in Tasmania which had a similar junk-inspired name.

    Small jumps – great – probably little environmental impact. Hulking great big gaps like these are most likely to impact on tree roots and encourage loss of soil via erosion and gullying, for a start. Yes, the woods have roads built through them. And paths. But the woodlands will have long since acclimated to this kind of historic disturbance.

    Recent impacts like these are likely to damage the ecology of these woodlands – notwithstanding potential damage to non-clued up humans.

    Edit: Gotma (above) – I did look at it before going over it. Hence why I still have all my teeth this morning. 😉 I knew what to expect from that area – and what to look out for. I am more concerned about the uninitiated who could easily head down such readily accessible trails paths without similar nouce and do themselves some serious damage.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    Can i say the following without it being misinterpreted as sarcasm?

    I can’t jump, so don’t like them.
    Ruins all the flow for me.
    It was better in the old days.

    joefm
    Full Member

    Fun police are out in full.

    Most of the jumps are well sighted and you’re not going to get your self into trouble as the lines start with a good sized gap. If you’re riding that blind and incompetently then you would crash elsewhere.

    Erosion – if it is is SSSI where you are referring to on footpaths then fair enough, but I dont think fly tipper, the northern monkey off line jumps, millstone hips (evian) are footpaths or SSSI.

    TurnerGuy
    Free Member

    I can’t jump, so don’t like them.
    Ruins all the flow for me.
    It was better in the old days.

    Take a spade and restore the trail – just as, or possibly more, legit that putting in the unavoidable jumps.

    maxtorque
    Full Member

    squoglybob
    they had found a Roman soldier buried in a shallow pit all curled up

    They probably wouldn’t have found him if they were digging for a massive booter ramp on the trail……. #TIMETEAMGOESJUMPING

    sideshow
    Free Member

    Take a spade and restore the trail – just as, or possibly more, legit that putting in the unavoidable jumps

    Riding trails yourself then undoing hard work somebody has done to improve the trail:

    Legit? maybe
    Ungrateful? definitely
    Out of order? unless landowner has requested it, definitely

    Who knows how many other trail features you already benefit from that these guys have put in?

    Just build a chicken line if it’s needed.

    I’m no steez god, can hardly jump a couple of bike lengths, but certainly wouldn’t destroy somebody elses hard work just because I can’t ride it.

    TurnerGuy
    Free Member

    but certainly wouldn’t destroy somebody elses hard work just because I can’t ride it.

    Just build a chicken line if it’s needed.

    I would if they had decided to remove my ability to ride the trail – why should I be forced to jump it – depending on the size of the jump I may not wish to take the risk – especially if I am in the middle of some long XC ride and riding on my own.

    There’s no problem if they have built the feature to accommodate everyone who currently rides the trail (chicken line), but if they haven’t then me ripping it down is still less selfish than them putting it in.

    What if I dug out a 10 foot gap in the middle of summer lightning, with no way past it? How long would that last ?

    jamesoz
    Full Member

    I dunno, part of me likes to think it’s fine “the kid” in me whilst my more adult side thinks that SSSI designated land should be respected, that said I used to ride a trail for years on SSSI land when one day my path was halted by a Van some mine tape and some bearded archaeologists, they had found a Roman soldier buried in a shallow pit all curled up, I managed to see the remains including his footwear which were well decayed and the rest was just bones, long story short Oxford Archeology dug up the whole area looking for other burial sites, the newts and butterflies went straight out the window, so if it’s alright for them,

    OA would have been monitored by conservation guys in the same way construction firms are monitored by archaeologists when excavating areas of potential interest.

    Gotama
    Free Member

    Hold on, he’s talking about flytipper here, not a peaslake summer lightening equivalent. That has always been a jump line as far as I’m aware and it would be pretty rubbish trail without the jumps, not that I can do them in their current incarnation. Granted the jumps have got bigger over the years but they were never small.

    smatkins1
    Free Member

    Great stuff if you like DOUBLES (and are prepared for them). But these are multi-use trails

    Fly tipper, milestone and the optional bit at the end of Northern Monkey are just jump lines now.

    If you’ve got the mad skilz and enjoy that sort of thing then these are excellent. Hats off to the guys who created them. If that’s not your thing then there are 101 other trails nearby to enjoy.

    It’s not like they’ve stuck one of these fly tipper sized jumps in the middle of a normal trail. A lot of work does seem to go on to maintain the Surry Hills trails and I think they are very considerate about what sized features they put in where.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Imagine if Log Man took to building Death Holes in the trail to snare us poor bikers.
    Would we mind that?

    aether531
    Free Member

    I’ve just come back to riding in Surrey Hills after a few years off and have been surprised by some of the jumps that have been added. I’ve never really been confident jumping but I’ve been giving them a go and am really enjoying it now, I even briefly contemplated having a crack at the doubles near Evian! So I’m all for them.

    Seeing as most of the bigger stuff is away from the tourist loop then I think it’s fine. And anyway, a chicken line will soon appear around most of them soon enough.

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    It’s the usual thing about balance surely?

    Quite a lot of jumps are hidden away in quieter spots in W’fold – much better than sticking a jump in the middle of suoernova!! Ok, it’s a surprise if your stumble on them (eg first time I rode N Monkey just after the big ones appeared!) but many have chicken lines (phew) eg the bottom bits near s Santa.

    Having said that, the quiet bits are in the most sensitive parts of the area so always a risk!!

    How many people ride fly tipper? No many I would imagine.

    (But the fairies do seem to very busy at the moment – even over the back of the Punchbowl!!!)

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    We’e had these discussions before about very similar parts of the Surrey Hills. Its my view adding jumps or digging out gaps on established well known trails is a very poor idea and risks trails being closed or destroyed. There are numerous areas where “free ride” stuff can be hidden away. I would categorise Fly Tipper as a jump trail, always has been and its relatively well hidden. People wanting to build jumps should do so on new lines and bigger stuff should be well hidden. It’s almost all illegal activity which is tolerated but there is a limit.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    I’d not grumble if the trail pixies would stick to tabletops, which (ahem) I can bimble over if I havent carried enough speed.

    Huge gaps with little chance to run out usually end up with someone losing their front teeth, or worse, scratching their Trek.

    adding jumps or digging out gaps on established well known trails is a very poor idea and risks trails being closed or destroyed.

    Pretty much this. Pushing the alotted envelope never tends to end well.

    Amazes me how much this subject divides opinion amongst its own kind.

    uselesshippy
    Free Member

    Fly tipper is a trail to nowhere. It has always been a jump trail, its now just a bit bigger.

    local
    Free Member

    You lot should stick to Holmbury Hill by the sounds of it.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    you’re so cool

    local
    Free Member

    Not as cool as you

    joefm
    Full Member

    Go ride BKB if you want to roll down without thinking?

    No one is sticking unclearable gaps in any older trail…

    Fly tipper hasn’t been anything other than a jump trail and would be really dull without i.e. one unnoticeable corner? So how is it ruining anything for anyone as i suggest you wouldn’t ride it otherwise.

    sofabear
    Free Member

    Also, extra gaps on trails like secret santa don’t necessarily help matters.

    The gap on Secret Santa (and Area 51 to a lesser extent) scare the shite out of me.

    Last time I was on Secret Santa, I was approaching the big gap (the first one?) and was preparing to take the chicken line…. only to find some idiots had left their bikes on the chicken line and were standing around yakking with each other.

    antennae
    Free Member

    Fly tipper hasn’t been anything other than a jump trail and would be really dull without i.e. one unnoticeable corner? So how is it ruining anything for anyone as i suggest you wouldn’t ride it otherwise.

    For a perspective from the middle ground… I like the gaps in Santas and Area 51, but can’t really do much bigger. I had done most of the ‘old’ Flytipper jumps and was working up the cojones to hit the last gap, then it went all super-sized and now it’s just not on my radar any more.

    Hats off to the trail pixies overall though. Good to have progression and challenging features, as long as there’s smaller stuff that gives mere mortals the chance to learn how to fly.

    Edric64
    Free Member

    Jumps and dug trails are a scar on the countryside they look bloody horrible the people who do such stuff should pay the cost of reinstatement

    flowerman
    Free Member

    Please don’t let this sound like a troll post but you have got to respect that the trails are for everyone. This means those who do enjoy the new bigger doubles and features can, and those who don’t like them, on about 90% of the jumps there are chicken lines. If you want to get better, you have to push yourself outside your comfort zone. OK some of the jumps which have popped up on trails like super nova were a bit stupid, and quite badly built. However I really enjoy all the doubles on reallynorthen monkey and flytipper. There are lots of kids who ride round peaslake who like the more technical jumps and features which adds to what is otherwise a pretty smooth and easy place to ride. There are still trails without jumps, and kits not like the jumps are any more of a disturbance to the trails which are already there.

    Anyway just my 10c.

    dogmatix
    Full Member

    I would also add that I have been over towards alderbrook copse many times and seen what can only be described as devastation when the trees have been harvested. The point about bridal paths, footpaths and roads runs true too. It seems like its one rule for some and one rule for mountain bikers. I am not saying the SSSI point isnt valid. But then it should be valid for all. In this regard completely new trials are questionable, but developed old trails can’t be seen as too much of an issue. I’d also question the intactness of biological heritage. There are rhododendron invasions all over the place. How long have the pine forests been there? The area was historically renowned for its Yew woods amongst others.

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