Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)
  • Building Control Incompetence – Will not sign stove installation off!
  • winston_dog
    Free Member

    Just spoke with Tunbridge Wells Building Control and they refuse to sign off a woodburner installation. They say I have to use a HETAS installer or they will work with a “specialist” but not a normal builder. They suggested I get a HETAS installer to “sign it off” but AFAIK they are not allowed to sign off other peoples work

    Bearing in mind it is a very simple internal flue in a bungalow, I’m not sure what could possibly be difficult.

    I am absolutely raging and I am going to write to them for a formal explanation.

    Do I have any leverage here or is it pointless pissing them off further?

    gavtheoldskater
    Free Member

    i can’t talk for your council, but when i installed a burner/flue building control at cornwall council were more than happy for me to do it and then come out to inspect/sign off the work for about 100quid.

    in the end, even though i easily could have done the work, i went with a hetas registered company thinking it would be the sensible option and lets just say it was the biggest botched utterly unsafe balls up you have ever seen.

    Rockhopper
    Free Member

    Building control probably don’t have anyone competent to assess if its been done correctly so they rely on self certification (HETAS).

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    winston_dog
    Free Member

    sign off the work for about 100quid

    I wish, they were going to charge £250 but now I am getting a refund.

    I’ll probably just fit it anyway and hope it doesn’t burn the house down.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    I’ll probably just fit it anyway and hope it doesn’t burn the house down.

    It’s the carbon monoxide that’ll kill you, not the flames.

    hth.

    cbmotorsport
    Free Member

    I’ll probably just fit it anyway and hope it doesn’t burn the house down.

    If you’re going to live there indefinitely, then go for it. If you’re likely to want to sell your house, think twice as it will undoubtedly get picked up when you come to sell.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “It’s the carbon monoxide that’ll kill you, not the flames.”

    Oh noes the fear factor.

    unless your fitting a rediculously big stove into a hermetically sealed modern house then distances to combustables are a bigger issue than CO

    ” edited for typo

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    a bigger issue than CO2

    I was commenting on the CO

    😉

    core
    Full Member

    They have no right to refuse to sign it off, using a competent person (i.e. HETAS) is only one way of demonstrating compliance.

    There is a simple form in Approved Document J to complete, and that coupled with visual inspections, following manufacturers guidance and general provision of Part J should suffice, we do them all the time.

    One thing to be careful of – no it might not be an issue until you sell, but may void your insurance!

    wwaswas, as you’re probably aware, all woodburner installations must now be accompanied by a C0 detector.

    cbmotorsport
    Free Member

    I always thought that HETAS and FENSA and things like that were invented to take the burden off building control, who were previously having to visit every time someone changed a window or installed a fire?

    What I mean is that I’m sure they can and should come out to sign it off, but don’t usually need to because of self certification.

    There’s no legal requirement to have these things installed by HETAS or FENSA approved suppliers…is there?

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    as you’re probably aware, all woodburner installations must now be accompanied by a C0 detector.

    they do but if the OP is just going for the “I’ll do it anyway and sod the rules” approach they may not?

    And I wasn;t entirely serious.

    [edit] I recently converted a window into French Doors by cutting out under the window etc. Building control would sign off for £120 as I didn;t use a FENSA gitter.

    Drac
    Full Member

    They have no right to refuse to sign it off

    What? Of course they do if they’re not happy or incapable of clearing something then they can’t just sign it off.

    cbmotorsport
    Free Member

    What? Of course they do if they’re not happy or incapable of clearing something then they can’t just sign it off.

    He means they have no right to refuse to come out, inspect and sign it off if it meets the criteria.

    winston_dog
    Free Member

    I actually have 2 CO detectors. Although think the risk has been completely overstated.

    They have no right to refuse to sign it off, using a competent person (i.e. HETAS) is only one way of demonstrating compliance.

    I would agree in principle but if they do refuse what can I do?

    I will be doing my own smoke test as in the building regs.

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    You need to find out if they have a statutory duty.

    If they do then you can insist.

    rwamartin
    Free Member

    Not sure if this is the same, but with electrical work there is no need to involve building control if you are having the work done by someone on a self certification scheme. However, you can do the work yourselves (yes, a full rewire) but you must notify building control BEFORE you commence work. This will require a fee to be paid and they then send someone to inspect it afterwards.

    Rich.

    winston_dog
    Free Member

    Apparently the HETAS scheme does not allow you to sign off work done by others.

    sleepless
    Free Member

    if your insurance requires the proof, you could turn to an independent building surveyor who is capable of approving the work you have done meets build regs. you are not obliged to use your local building control. Just let them know your work complies. this causes all sorts of angry banter around the uk between developers and local authorities. eg portakabins built in midlands use local independent building inspectors to approve design then final destination council inspectors disagreeing. earlier comment is possibly fair, they have cut back loads on quality of staff and rely more on you proving your design meets regs, rather than them actually reviewing calcs and design for compliance. keep in mind, Building regs seems to be written to accommodate some room for interpretation.

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    Just one more time! Mate of my dads “fitted” his own multi fuel in an existing opening, basically shoved a small length of flue up the existing chimney. Near to Christmas so lovely roaring fire is lit, chimney catches fire fire brigade called. Brigade can’t access for whatever reason so take a sledge hammer to chimney breast. Fire put out. Big mess. No hetas certificate. Insurance say F off and merry Christmas!

    richc
    Free Member

    No hetas certificate. Insurance say F off and merry Christmas!

    As they should, why should everyone else have to pay more for their insurance just because someone is to cheap to get it done properly.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “Just one more time! Mate of my dads “fitted” his own multi fuel in an existing opening, basically shoved a small length of flue up the existing chimney. Near to Christmas so lovely roaring fire is lit, chimney catches fire fire brigade called. Brigade can’t access for whatever reason so take a sledge hammer to chimney breast. Fire put out. Big mess. No hetas certificate. Insurance say F off and merry Christmas!”

    You like to trot that one as does footflaps about his neighbour, hetas installed or not – use it wrong , dont clean it and keep it shut in youll have chimney fires.

    A short length of flue and register plate into an existing chimney are valid methods of putting a stove into an existing good condition chimney , chimney liners are temporary repairs.

    Fwiw im in scotland so had mine fitted by a competent person 😉

    core
    Full Member

    A few points to make:

    Many types of work, but most commonly electrical, gas, oil & solid fuel stoves can be carried out and certified by installers registered on a competent persons scheme (cps). The Building Regulations apply to these works, so you either need cps registered installer OR to submit a Building Regulations Application.

    Building Regulations are administered by building control bodies, who may either be local authority, or independent, approved inspectors (AI’s), both can sign off work but AI’s have no enforcement powers. So the post above that says you don’t need building regs and you can use an independent surveyor, is, I think referring to an AI, so still a building control body.

    Having said that Local Authorities usually deal with the low value, hassly applications as AI’s can’t be arsed.

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    The root cause of this fire was the heat the stove created apparently, if had been an open fire up until then.
    But thanks for reminding me about the sweep. He’s booked in for Monday because I know what I’m doing and how to look after a fire. Others don’t and for that reason I’ll keep spouting the same old guff 😉

Viewing 23 posts - 1 through 23 (of 23 total)

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