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"Brought" and "Bought" My theory.
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Posted 2 years ago #
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I work with many people who, despite being rather inteligent (Ph.D. or above), having varied social class origins and are from different regions of the country, confuse words or are unaware of grammatical errors. I imagine I would too, but both my parents are very literate and I read a lot of books as a child rather than watch television.
I imagine many of the issues being discussed here are the result of improper schooling, lower reading rates, poor grammatical and lexical support amongst family and friends and the all pervasive "dumbing down" of speech presented in the popular media. I doubt TXT speek or 1337 speek help much either. I especially dislike it when students use either of these in work they hand in. All of these problems would appear to be products of the environment we now live in. How to stop the downwards spiral?
Having just read what I have written above it all sounds very pretentious and Victorian. Hey ho
. Smileys get on my goat too.I ain't purfik neither. Somethings seem to have become ingrained
Posted 2 years ago # -
confuse words or are unaware of grammatical errors
I don't accept that an intelligent person (certainly not someone educated to Ph.D level) can have any excuse for making grammatical errors or confuse words. If they are able to learn a subject to that level, they are easily capable of learning their first language correctly (assuming, of course, they do not have a language-imparing disability).Posted 2 years ago # -
I *hate* misuse of the reflexive pronoun. Saying "myself" when you mean "me" doesn't make you sound clever, it makes you sound like a telesales person.
Posted 2 years ago # -
don't accept that an intelligent person (certainly not someone educated to Ph.D level) can have any excuse for making grammatical errors or confuse words
Of course they can. They just place less importance on grammar than you do. Since they can still communicate perfectly effectively, who's to say that they're not the more intelligent people than those of us who get annoyed about it despite the fact that it has very little effect.
A bit like some mtbers I know who can't ride without stopping if something is not quite perfect (eg a brake lever isn't quite in line with the other) despite the fact that it's of no real effect.
Posted 2 years ago # -
My point was that intelligent people can make these errors without realising it, albeit not as often as some of the less gifted members of our society. I agree that there is no excuse though, but how do you start to get them to correct their speech when they themselves are unaware?
Posted 2 years ago # -
But why are they making the errors? Why are they not aware? They are still showing signs of stupidity, Ph.D or not, if they are unable to grasp their own language - things they were taught in school. It certainly makes them look stupid.
I do appreciate that some very gifted people have dreadful written skills but they often have the sorts of disabilities I have already mentioned.
They just place less importance on grammar than you do
That is a very different argument - if they know how to spell, punctuate and use grammar correctly when they need to then fair enough. If they just don't understand it, then they do not have a basic skill they should have learned at school.Posted 2 years ago # -
Stop being so precious you lot.
Can't we get back to baiting thicko oiks?
Posted 2 years ago # -
i think i get my knickers in a twist at the term stupid.
i had a fairly gypo childhood and feel that folks tend to confuse uneducated with stupid.my english is pish but i dont feel it has held me back,perhaps it has with choices of oportunities but other than that it's going ok.
however at 32 years of age it could be said that i should have sorted it by now.Posted 2 years ago # -
I left school with a grade 5 CSE in English. Everything I have learned since has been from listening, learning, understanding. I could never understand when I should use an apostrophe until a friend explained about possessive/plural. One minute later I understood something that 12 years of school couldn't teach me. How much of that was bad teaching, how much was a new-found desire to actually understand I really don't know.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm not sure much of what we are talking about is taught in schools. I certainly wasn't taught it in an active manner until near the end of secondary school, by which time it is too late. Hence my point that maybe they don't realise they are doing it because they have never been taught it and those around them are the same or worse and so it continues.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I don't accept that an intelligent person (certainly not someone educated to Ph.D level) can have any excuse for making grammatical errors or confuse words. If they are able to learn a subject to that level, they are easily capable of learning their first language correctly (assuming, of course, they do not have a language-imparing disability).
While I like to think I have a decent grasp of English and can write a coherent page, I'm fairly sure that I don't know every last rule of grammar and spelling. While writing a technical paper I'd be sure to check everything (though there are multiple areas where there are more than one solution), on a forum post I may lapse a little. Though you can be pretty damn sure I'd accept a kicking if I incorrectly used their/there where/wear/ware etc
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm the guy that usually gets asked if something is grammatically correct and I reckon I have a pretty good understanding of it.
Despite this, I've never learnt (and actually don't recall it being covered at school) what the difference between "who" and "whom" is. I've never bothered to learn because I reckon if you use the word "whom" you sound like a ponce no matter how grammatically correct you may be
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm fairly sure that I don't know every last rule of grammar and spelling.
Me too.(Another one of my bug-bears - to/too).
'I am going too the shops'.
'May I come to'?
Which is another one - may/can
'Can I lend your rubber'?
'I don't know, can you'?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Two things that annoy me, the use of "I" when "me" ought to be used.
e.g "Do you want to come for a ride with Al and I?"Use of "which" instead of "that".
e.g. "I bought a new Camelbak which has a 3L bladder."On the subject of stupidity versus education, in my opinion it is a greater failing to be ignorant through lack of education when you have the ability to correct the deficiency than to be ignorant through stupidity since people are stupid through no fault of their own.
Posted 2 years ago # -
All of these problems would appear to be products of the environment we now live in. How to stop the downwards spiral?
no. way. Hosé.
It's like a backwards Sisyphus where we plummet endlessly downwards yet all still more us less understand each other. At the top was grunting.
'Can I lend your rubber'?
'I don't know, can you'?Immediately followed by punch to MF
PS If I borrow you a rubber I don't want it back used thanks...Posted 2 years ago # -
PS If I borrow you a rubber I don't want it back used thanks...
I was actually quoting a real-life experience of mine when Tony Rhodes (our year's mentalist nutter) asked me during a music lesson some 27 or so years ago. Back then rubbers were something you used to correct mistakes. Now you use them to prevent mistakes. Posted 2 years ago # -
There and their-annoying but hey I let it go as they could be dyslexic or English is a 3 rd language...
But if it was my child, I'd slap them...
Also I'm studying basic French and I'm making a few mistakes-grass is greener on the other...
Posted 2 years ago # -
But if it was my child, I'd slap them...
I think it's already been established that you are illsuited to parenthood
Posted 2 years ago # -
Anything that has the incorrect word used in its written description means I won't buy that product/service. I saw a house advertised the other day, a $million+ house and the description had "...with an ore inspiring view.". I emailed the agent and asked what sort of Ore it looked over and he came back to me somewhat confused. I pointed out his error and suggested that if it was my $million+ house with that description I would have lynched him. He hasn't changed it yet as he didn't actually know what the "right" word was. W T F.
Things like that, bought/brought etc all really annoy me. You may be super smart but please use the right words and spell them proper like. And if you don't know where to use the apostrophe then best bet is don't put it in.
Thank you. Posted 2 years ago # -
All this whinging and no mention of ickle, bockle, hospikle, skelington or chimbly.
This is The North, where we say what we like.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I could care less about all the above points.
Or couldn't I?
Posted 2 years ago # -
As part of my job I have to sanction letters that go out to customers.
My red pen is my best friend.
I am considered anal.
I love my red pen.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Or couldn't I?
no.
Anything that has the incorrect word used in its written description means I won't buy that product/service
also known as "tilting at windmills" :o)
Posted 2 years ago # -
I haven't read any of these posts except the first couple as I couln't be arsed, but I should of. See what I did there. There are many grammatical errors i.e. too many or two few apostrophes, should "of", brought/bought, lend borrow, i.e./e.g. but the one that really gets on my moobs at the moment is "for free". It's just "free" you 'tards. And 'tards, of course. Merkans, eh?
Posted 2 years ago # -
proof reading the minutes I'd just sent out to the club, I found I'd used 'there' for 'their', oh the shame! Entertainingly, there's no ambiguity when spoken...
Posted 2 years ago # -
I wouldn't worry there SFB, I'm sure no one reads their bike club minutes with so many untidy sock drawers in the country.
Posted 2 years ago # -
What about "of" instead of "have". As in "I should of stuck in at school"
Posted 2 years ago # -
Language change?
Posted 2 years ago # -
This is never going to change until presenters on TV start talking properly. Case in point: Jamie Redknapp.
Posted 2 years ago # -
It wasn't until I learned German that it made me think about English grammar, too. That, and the pedantic ****s on here.
Yes, I did just use @ instead of 'at'.
L8ters
Posted 2 years ago # -
he's a footballer man give him a break.
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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