However I would be interested to see the real world stats once implemented that dropping the speed limit by 1/3 will reduce serious accidents and deaths by 1/3.

Would that be your benchmark for ‘success’ then?

It has to be a good thing. More accidents are on 30mph roads than anywhere else in the network, so reducing the speed improves survivability. It calms traffic. It makes going by bike more attractive. It makes public transport a better option. The usual 3 questions for transport are ‘is it faster / cheaper / easier for me?’ and most people want at least 2 of them before they will change. 20mph might help with pushing people away from cars.

Project this is my point – thats doing it half arsed way ( which is a waste of time) – the only way is to make the 20 mph the default and by removing all most /all of the road signs show this – then 30 and 40 limits have to be signed but overall there is less signage

Ransos – I bet the average is around 15 or less – so a 1 mph drop is significant What is shows is how little time is saved in a 30 mph limit for car drivers

They did around me in Newcastle recently. I really like it and on the whole it seems to work. If the majority stick to the speed limit the minority are often forced to anyway.

Large parts of Cambridge are now 20mph and I can’t say you notice any difference. I didn’t even notice they’d changed all the signs for the area I live till a few weeks after they’d done it!

People still hurtle down the 20mph high street at 60+ late at night with music blaring from their mum’s Clio….

the only way is to make the 20 mph the default and by removing all most /all of the road signs show this

Yep – the old “streetlights = 30” rule is a bit outdated anyway IMO. Loads of roads have streetlights now, so often require signs enforcing different speed limits.

Scrap that and introduce a “residential area = 20mph” rule (i.e. houses/shops by the roadside = 20 unless otherwise signed).

I just doubt that dropping the speed limit to 20mph will make much difference to accident stats (unfortunately).

I was recently in France and loved their approach to speed control in built up areas.

Basically they appear to use road narrowing as a way to control speed, and it works without the need for any signs etc.

Ransos – I bet the average is around 15 or less – so a 1 mph drop is significant What is shows is how little time is saved in a 30 mph limit for car drivers

Reduction was 23.6 to 22.7mph. No effect on casualties. Increase in walking/ cycling in line with general increase across the whole city.

http://www.bristol.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/transport_and_streets/managing_roads_and_traffic_schemes/20mphMonitoringReport6_3_12.pdf

I support 20mph schemes in principle, but this one is achieving nothing.

People still hurtle down the 20mph high street at 60+ late at night with music blaring from their mum’s Clio….

This is why the roads need to be engineered so the limits are self-enforcing.
No one is going to do 60mph down a narrowed cobbled residential street with speed pillows when they could be out on the A-roads.

They’ll be complaining about STWers speeding on their push bikes, you know.

Quite possibly.

If we want this safe harmonious road system where everyone gets along, feels safer and makes good progress then we may have to give a bit in return and accept that bikes, as well as cars, will have to travel a bit more slowly.

(That doesn’t necessarily mean journeys take longer. Moving slower traffic often outpaces faster stop-start traffic and techniques like green wave traffic lights can really help too)

I wish someone would have a crack at sorting the timing of the lights on the North Bristol ring road. There has to be a green wave option that would keep a body of cars moving in a more efficient way.

There has to be a green wave option that would keep a body of cars moving in a more efficient way.

It would work for cars – but requires them all to go at roughly similar speeds and obey the speed limit, which sadly rarely happens on UK roads.

Perhaps with a suitably educational advertising campaign: “You can floor it all you like Mr Audi, but unless you’re doing 40mph along this stretch you’ll find you are waiting at a red light till the cars obeying the limit catch up”

The thing that annoys me with traffic ‘calming’ is wildly inappropriate speed bumps.

Where I live there’s a lot of 20 and 30 zones enforced by these things, I think Hyndburn BC took it upon themselves to single-handedly reduce the EU Tarmac Mountain. Some of them are so big that it’s not possible to drive over them at anything more than walking pace without risking serious damage. Whilst I’m no fan of speed bumps generally, if we have to have them surely they should be negotiable at the limit they’re trying to enforce?

techniques like green wave traffic lights can really help too

I would bloody love a bit of green wave action, occasionally get on one by accident and it cuts my commute by about ten minutes.

Blanket 20mph with faster signed “arterial” roads definitely seems to be the way forward. Transport network needs major overhaul, upgrade it to v2.0 not just add a few update patches.

Great idea – lets spend a fortune on new road signs etc in a city where we hardly get up to 20mph cos of the traffic jams anyway – much better than spending money on the old peoples homes the local paper is today announcing will be closing (despite protests). Got to get priorities right when there is lack of funds.

Narrowing the roads/widening the pavements is a terrible idea.

They have just done it up Whiteladies Road in Bristol and it makes no sense and just makes it harder to drive up.

But yes, over the years I have rarely gone over 20-25 on whiteladies before the changes. Now you just get overloaded with stuff as they have made it horrible.

And put a bus lane through all the parking spaces which makes no sense.