Viewing 21 posts - 41 through 61 (of 61 total)
  • British Roads
  • VanHalen
    Full Member

    The non-toll roads i used in france this summer were just as shit as uk ones.

    PimpmasterJazz
    Free Member

    Why are British drivers and roads $hit! mile after mile on the peage and lane discipline was fine, road surface was lovely. The hit the UK and drivers stuck in lanes 2 and 3 and on the M25 4 when they could easily have moved over.

    Just thinking the level of congestion on British roads and a huge part is simply the crap driving! As for the road surface! Even new British roads are generally crap!

    Haven’t read thread so not sure if it’s been covered, but the volume of people in the UK – especially heavily populated southern England – places a massive strain on the road network. If memory serves, France has four times the space for the same population of England, and the population is far better spread out. That in itself would help keep roads clearer.

    Regarding standards, it is easier to drive on less congested roads. People have room to move and are consequently less likely to take stupid risks to ‘make progress’.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Driving through the busiest parts of LA and San Fran, on top of the open roads in the countryside. Salt Lake City(okay empty city really) and Denver also (work hours on a business trip)

    US cities aren’t that busy during the day, it’s rush hour that’s the problem.

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    molgrips
    Free Member

    Re France – they seem to have (or they used to) more insane boy racers doing far more dangerous stuff than you see here.

    superfli
    Free Member

    This has bugged me for years. Its not just France though. Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Slovenia. They all have far better condition roads than UK. I used to take the motorbike over to Europe as the roads were so good. Spain, we classed as the biggest race track in the world lol! We would be riding a perfectly good mountain road with hardly any traffic on, glance to the right and you would see a massive bridge being built across the valley! They must cost billions.. I wonder where they get all that money….

    It may only be part of the problem+resolution, but I’m a believer that we should be charging for motorway use, as per on the continent. Tolls maybe, but a cheaper method/less infrastructure, would be a Vignette. That way we can get some of our money back from the jolly foreigners 🙂 I mean it costs as much in tolls as it does in fuel to take my car to the Alps. It will also help spread the traffic from motorway to A +minor roads, although TBH the amount of traffic we have on the roads is not going to help too much.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    Try driving round Huston. Horrible, if you indicate to change lanes you have no chance

    molgrips
    Free Member

    but I’m a believer that we should be charging for motorway use, as per on the continent.

    A pay per use system like the French have would be a bit of a disaster, as people would use local roads to avoid motorways and they’d get snarled up even worse. But then again – maybe not, as the actual numbers of cars that’d need to be removed from say the M25 might be easily dispersed elsewhere. Dunno.

    But the Vignette for all motorways like in Austria would be effectively a motoring tax, wouldn’t it? Not that that’s a bad thing mind but might be unpopular.

    mrmo
    Free Member

    A pay per use system like the French have would be a bit of a disaster, as people would use local roads to avoid motorways and they’d get snarled up even worse. But then again – maybe not, as the actual numbers of cars that’d need to be removed from say the M25 might be easily dispersed elsewhere. Dunno.

    ever heard of predict and provide? if you want to get people out of cars then the solution is to make driving harder. Yes people will scream, but IMO tough.

    And as with a vignette, ALL drivers pay rather than some. I don’t mind paying to use french and swiss roads i am wearing them out. Why should’t continental drivers pay for access to UK roads?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Yes people will scream, but IMO tough.

    Yeah but democracy…

    deadkenny
    Free Member

    US mega lane highways / interstates like above though are surprisingly not that scary when on them. They’re split into on ramps, feeder lanes, main lanes and car pool lanes, and the rules are again nice and simple… there are no rules. Pick a lane and sit in it. Change lane in either direction if you need to overtake, and change to exit. Though there are some roads which apply the British system. Usually on big hills to encourage trucks to move to one side.

    Problem with Britain is the move to the left rule and the BMW/Audi driver who sits in the middle. We’re too polite so sit behind the guy in the middle lane. Undertake and all hell brakes loose.

    In America, move to the right or left of him, and no one is bothered about it and there isn’t a huge queue generated of people impatiently waiting behind when there’s plenty of lanes to fill.

    Our system works for fast flowing traffic, but not when it gets slow and congested. That’s why road authorities recommend filling out lanes when you get 3 or 2 lanes into 1, but yet many pull to the left and get irate with those in the right and don’t let them in. M25 needs a rule that says pick a lane, stay there but feel free to undertake if need be. Particularly when the speed limit is dropped to 50 or under.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    US mega lane highways / interstates like above though are surprisingly not that scary when on them.

    That’s not my experience. Almost everyone, massive HGVs included, is speeding, tailgating and not really concentrating very hard. And the system is the same as the British system – you’re meant to keep right in most places, but it’s almost completely ignored. There are signs all over the place.

    Our system works for fast flowing traffic, but not when it gets slow and congested.

    M25 needs a rule that says pick a lane, stay there but feel free to undertake if need be.

    Highway code has one.

    PimpmasterJazz
    Free Member

    And as with a vignette, ALL drivers pay rather than some. I don’t mind paying to use french and swiss roads i am wearing them out. Why should’t continental drivers pay for access to UK roads?

    We avoided it had to while driving on the continent. I don’t have a problem as long as you don’t have to buy a pass for a year, a la Switzerland.

    Saying that, it cost us more to drive down half of Croatia for a day. But the road was totally empty and as smooth as…

    CountZero
    Full Member

    Mind you finding the money to pay for better roads, the outcry from the Mail if they even think about tolls.

    Doesn’t the motorist contribute something like £40 billion a year? The cost of bringing roads up to a decent standard is running at one tenth of that per year.
    And yet tolls are thought acceptable despite such a huge amount of money being taken every year?
    🙄
    If the mind-buggering amount of money being planned for the insane vanity project that is HS2 was diverted and ring-fenced specifically for upgrading and maintenance of roads, then things would improve dramatically, although it would certainly take time.

    ghostlymachine
    Free Member

    Wouldn’t it be better to simply improve the non-car infrastructure? Rather than upgrading the roads (making them bigger) Trains, bus etc and try get a double digit percentage of motorists off the roads?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    If the mind-buggering amount of money being planned for the insane vanity project that is HS2 was diverted and ring-fenced specifically for upgrading and maintenance of roads, then things would improve dramatically

    Things? Which things?

    gobuchul
    Free Member

    If the mind-buggering amount of money being planned for the insane vanity project that is HS2 was diverted and ring-fenced specifically for upgrading and maintenance of roads, then things would improve dramatically, although it would certainly take time.

    Do you drive on the M25 much?

    What would you spend the billions on to prevent congestion around the M3 and M4 junctions? There are already 4 lanes and it jams up just from pure weight of traffic. Would you suggest building more lanes?

    What about the Dartford crossing?

    Retromud
    Free Member

    European driving experience is limited to being a passenger from Charles design gaulle into the centre of Paris – something so terrifying we chose to return by train to the airport. Lane discipline? Don’t make me laugh. Free for all doesn’t even come close.
    Extensive experience of the Washington belt way, Baltimore, and parts of pennsylvania suggest that the USA also generally goes with the free for all of terror approach, and while Americans tend to demand a fair degree of luxury in most aspects of daily life, it appears that they would quite happily sh*t in a bucket at the roadside going by the interstate services I had the misfortune to visit

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    hine – Member
    Wouldn’t it be better to simply improve the non-car infrastructure? Rather than upgrading the roads (making them bigger) Trains, bus etc and try get a double digit percentage of motorists off the roads?

    Yes. half the problem is the “when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail” situation where car seems to be the only choice some people can see for all of their journeys. For some people this is true but for many it is not.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    it appears that they would quite happily sh*t in a bucket at the roadside going by the interstate services I had the misfortune to visit

    They vary massively across the country. Some are nice, but not many. The concept of ‘services’ is pretty rare anyway, since there are restaurants clustered around most inhabited exits anyway.

    irc
    Full Member

    The issue is not enough roads in the UK. Especially motorways. 60 odd years after the motorway building program started and there is still not a motorway all the way between Glasgow and Edinburgh. Still to east coast motorway south from Edinburgh to Newcastle. Etc.

    UK 3.5 thousand miles of motorway.

    Germany 12.8k miles, France 11.4k miles.

    It isn’t any better by other measures.

    Miles per capita (x1000) UK 54.9 Germany 158 France 171

    M of motorway per sq Km UK 14.45 Germany 35.8 France 17.8

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_length_of_expressways

    Silly decisions are still being made. Within the last 5 years the A80 had roadworks on it for a year or more while being upgraded to motorway.It is the link between the junction of the M80 and the M73 at one end and the M80 and M876 at the other. So 4 lanes of N-S motorway at each end.

    The new road was built as 2 lanes each way. Result – as soon as it opened there was peak hour congestion. Building it as dual 3 lane would have cost a bit more but coped with the existing traffic.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    UK 3.5 thousand miles of motorway.

    Germany 12.8k miles,

    Part of that is topgraphical, but also I reckon much of the German Autobahn is comparable with UK dual carriageways, so include those.

    Building it as dual 3 lane would have cost a bit more but coped with the existing traffic

    Yes but it would have generated more. It’s well known that better road infrastructure generates more traffic. Reduce the commute time between two places by improving roads, and more people will make the journey until the commute time is the same.

Viewing 21 posts - 41 through 61 (of 61 total)

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