If you’ve been taking an interest in the comings and goings with Bristol’s trails, you might be aware that there is a project underway to develop the trail network in Ashton Court, Leigh Woods, and other areas within riding distance of the city centre.

A trail design study is going to be carried out by Phil Saxena, mainly known for building extremely gnarly 4X tracks for the UCI world cup series, but he can also do the XC thing – he’s worked at Cwm Carn, Thetford and has even picked up a spade and helped out with volunteer dig days on the Timberland Trail. There’s more about him and his new partnership here.

Phil has organised a consultation session for this Thursday evening which will take place at a venue near Ashton Court (the original venue fell through but a new one should be confirmed later today). This will be an opportunity for mountain bikers to air their views on what type of facilties they want to see in Bristol. I should think there will also be a bit more information on the type of development that is planned.

Anyone who wants to attend is welcome. I’ll be going along, together with members of the local MTB clubs (BMBC and Cheesy Riders), and I’d be happy to pass on the views of anyone who can’t make it.

If you’re interested you can contact Phil directly using the website above, or email me and I’ll let you know when the venue is confirmed.

Cheers

Antony

http://www.bristoltrailsgroup.com

I rode the trail at Ashton Court for the first time in 10 years last weekend. The only thing I can think of, which I think has been said more than once, is that it could do with better sign posting. I passed about 5 people going the wrong way, 2 of which stopped to speak to me (I was waiting for a friend honest!), and they didn’t have a clue where they were or where they were going or that they were going the wrong way.

More jumps, bigger berms and better draining.. I realise the last is near impossible!

Once I’ve been to Ashton a few times, I will certainly be giving you a hand with the trails! 😉

Oh yea & I couldn’t find any other trails, apart from the Timberland Trail.

Yo Ant, can you drop me a txt when the venue is sorted?

Can do ADH.

Milkie, the signage (and indeed the direction of the trail) is a good point, and something that has needed addressing for a while now.

Design something with maintenance in mind. No use building something amazing that requires a full time crew to maintain. How about maintenance points where the gravel/hardcore can be dropped in more frequent spots. I think the trails group would appreciate that.

A place where you can clean your bike before heading home.

Yeah, there needs to be more signage to ensure that everyone knows it’s a two-way trail 🙄

FWIW, I think that the biggest thing is just having more trails available that are properly weather proof á la Afan. Leigh Woods has the potential to have loads of trail in a relatively small area if planned properly but I guess that the cost is going to be the big issue. Is there any word on what sort of budget is available for all this since that’s what’s really going to decide what we can/can’t have…

Milkie, one of the problems seems to be that the Bristol Bikefest rides it in the other direction, and a lot of people prefer it the other way around, so they ride it in both directions (I know I do).

Personally I don’t care, as long as people realize that its ridden in both directions and bear that in mind as they go along thats fine, however that doesn’t appear to be the case and I am amazed no one has hurt themselves or someone else yet by crashing into oncoming riders/walkers/runners.

I guess if a return leg was built that fixed the problem that riders having to go down some dull fireroad and alongside the road, might mean that people do it as a loop, rather than cutting back and riding the start in the other direction.

As for what else would be good, well last year I went to Rossland in Canada, and in a small flat(ish) area they had a built a little bike skills park, which had around 20 obstacles, which varied from 3 drops (like at Cwmcarn), a couple of logs to ride along, then a little raised area (around 6 inches high) with a series of planks to ride along, some with little steps, others attached at each end with very short chains so they moved at you rode them, and a couple of seesaws.

I’ve seen similar skills areas in Scotland, and they are really good and one of the things I think we are lacking in England, so would give a unique selling point to the Ashton Court trails

Regardless, I just want to add that the Ashton Court/50 arce trails are impressive bits of trail, especially when you think that they are built and maintained by volunteers, I just need to get my arse out and help on a dig day to put something back into the trails that I now ride a few times a week (I add them onto my commute home 😉 )

All good suggestions. Keep them coming and I’ll either send Phil a link to this thread or print it out before the meeting.

Clubber, the budget is potentially pretty big, but so far only the funding for the study and consultation has been OKed, and any grant will be spread through the South West, so it’s still an unknown quantity at the moment. Hopefully there will be some more info on this soon.

If you are thinking of increasing the traffic in 50 acre, Ashton Court and Leigh Woods, someone is going to have a serious think about the bikes crossing the roads to link them up, and how to make it a little safer, as that’s a very busy road, used by a lot of people.

The Beggars bush lane crossing is hairy enough at times, as some people (mainly BMW and Audi drivers) seem to want to see just how fast they can go down that road, and the crossing between Ashton Court and North road is worse (IMHO).

May ride there tomorrow and was going to lap the bikefest route…is that backwards then?
Seemed like a good way round to me. Downhills better that way id have thought.

Yeah, there needs to be more signage to ensure that everyone knows it’s a two-way trail

Yeah, because it’s really obvious for someone who has never been there 🙄
FWIW, I live in Bristol but I do not bother with ashton court, which is a shame as I’d be happy to donate time and money to maintain it if I thought it were any good. Community is a good thing. But I think I’ve ridden it twice. With Cwmcarn taking me 30-40 minutes, what’s the point?
The main reasons I dislike it is its flat and muddy (90% of the time).

There should definitely be some sort of warning sign where the TT crosses Beggar Bush Lane.

backhander, there are some good bits in Leigh Woods that are much more technical than Cwmcarn (XC track) you just need to go and have a look. So with some funding, they could get improved which would mean that you wouldn’t need to get in the car for 90 minutes to go for a 80 minute ride. Leigh Woods has enough height, and space to play with, so it should be possible

Personally I use Ashton Court, etc as a loop to keep my eye in for when I go for a proper ride on the weekend.

As for the Beggars Bush Lane crossing, all you need is 2 speed cameras and the problem would disappear, without them its a lethal bit of road.

With Cwmcarn taking me 30-40 minutes, what’s the point?

Erm, that kind of IS the point. I agree that if you count just the official trails though Bristol can’t really hold a candle to the Welsh centres.

Sounds like your at the stage I attended down at Haldon near Exeter around 8 months ago. Dafydd Davis did a feasibility study and proposal for a new ‘red’ graded ‘swoopy’ singletrack trail which sounded like it would be a worthy addition to the trails built by local builders. Then the FC tookover and we’ve ended up with an extension to the M5 which when held against any other ‘red’ trail in the country looks like a flat road.

To cut a long story short, If you have some good trails already, dont lose them to be replaced by something worse.

Burchy1, that is the danger, you lose something that’s horrible for most of the year but fun in the summer, but you end up with something that’s equally bland all year round.

Something does need to be done though, we’ve been maintaining the trails voluntarily since 2004 here and it’s a bit of a Forth Bridge job at times. There is a fine line between challenging trails and a horrible muddy slog.

Thanks for the heads up about the signage folks, was planning to visit for the first time this weekend. Any volunteers for showing me around the place sometime this Saturday?

The bloody signage is so poor, on my first visit I didn’t even know to cross the road.
rich,80-90 mins travelling? where to? like I said, Cwm in 35 odd and afan in 1hr10mins. I wish I didn’t have to travel even that far but I can’t see any options ATM. I’ve often wondered why there is nothing on the outskirts as AC is so central and can take me 30-40 mins just to get there. Like I say, it would be nice to get involved as the folks seem so nice but the riding is somewhat lacking IMO.

really? it takes me 40 to 45 minutes each way (you have to include getting back!) where are you heading off from.

As for closer stuff for the same or less driving time, you have the Mendips, Quantocks, Exmoor and a large chunk of South Wales within 90 minutes each way of Bristol. You do have to be happy with a map however.

I’m pretty good with a map and compass (although not experienced in pacing with a bike). I live in the burbs in north bristol.
The thing that does ruin my argument for wales is the bridge toll. French ripoff barstewarts.

I love the riding in Bristol – ok, less so in winter when it’s glooptastic but then you just ride the trails that aren’t marked and so most people don’t know about – twisty singletrack does it for me though and I have no problem with it being fairly flat so long as it’s fun.

I guess that people who are more into the speed aspect won’t find that so good though.

If you are in North Bristol, then the Mendips are very easy/quick to get to and with a bit of exploring there are some decent trails to be found on Rowbarrow & around Cheddar.

Cwmcarn and Afan are good in the winter or when the weather is terrible (I can’t even remember the last time I rode them when it wasn’t shitting it down) but there is so much better stuff within 90 minutes (each way) of Bristol.

If you do want to ride built trails, Mountain Ash & Gethin are also closer than Cwmcarn.

Anyhow I this is a bit OT now, so sorry Mr A.

I think Backhander’s posts raise a reasonable point, which is that if you live 30 minutes ride from the trails like I do, they are great. I love riding from my door, no bother with loading and unloading, petrol money, bridge tolls. I can bump into mates and have a pint on the way home.

If I lived 30 minutes drive away I might be a bit more ambivalent, especially if I had certain expectations of a trail – e.g. a long descent, foolproof waymarking, all weather surface etc.

As i’ve said above, the current official trails in Bristol aren’t the best, and most people tend to mix them up with the cheeky stuff. I wouldn’t want to ride the official trail in Cwm Carn week in week out either.

I think the official trail network in Bristol needs improvement of the existing stuff, and introduction of some more challenging trails for the experienced riders, as well as sorting out the places like Leigh Woods where the unofficial trails are just hammered. I don’t know whether attracting riders from outside Bristol is a key part of the brief or not yet. If it is, then that will be a big challenge.

But rowberrow and cheddar are south of bristol.
Wooton under edge and the cotswolds are closer for me but I would dearly love to have somewhere to ride from my door for evenings like this one.
I really don’t care if the trails are built or nautral but I do want my ride to be as fun as possible and of course I don’t ride cwmcarn every week but I thought the example was a good one. I really wish the trails group the very best of luck, it would be great to have some better riding in briz but I don’t think we’ll ever attract visitors away from Afan and neither should we, areas like Glyncorrwg need the money.

If you do want to ride built trails, Mountain Ash & Gethin are also closer than Cwmcarn.

Are you sure? seem further to me.

Doh! for some reason I always think of North Bristol as Bedminster, etc but thats just me being a bit dim. Sounds like you are out at Sadly Broke, which isn’t really Bristol, its South Gloucester 😉

As for Mountain Ash being closer, when I’ve driven there I have noticed its around 5 ten minutes quicker to get to than Cwmcarn. Dunno why, but thats how it always works out.

not sadly broke, a small village closer to emersons green. It’s only become s gloucs in recent years and most who’ve been around a while still regard it as bristol, avon.
Maybe you’re a bit quicker as you’re a bit more excited to be going there? bit heavier on the old accelerator?

😆 doubt it, apparently I drive like an old man.

I live in North Bristol, Ashton Court might take 20 minutes to drive to and Cwmcarn not that much longer in the scheme of things, but I can ride to AC / LW and then home again (via a huge choice of pubs), especially after work. Dont fancy riding to Cwmcarn, even if it is only an extra 15 minutes by car.

I also like the way you can just ride at AC / LW until you’ve had enough, no doing laps, wondering if there is time for one more. You’re rarely much more than a mile from wherever you started.

Very different riding there too, arguably more technical than most trail centres (definitely far more if you include the LW’s descents). I’ll carry on riding there as long as I’m in Bristol. Only the thieving scum that loiter there put me off, oh, and the occassional patch of mud….

Backhander – you really ought to check out the Mendips, there’s some awesome riding there, especially if you get slightly cheeky around Crook Peak. I’ll swap some routes for some stuff nearby in the Cotwolds?

mate, anywhere around the cotswold way is pretty good. Some is cheeky but not many seem to mind and if you choose your times right, you rarely see anyone.
I would begin with the three routes in the “trail guide” section on this site!
I would welcome some mendips advice though!

Did the long route recently, nice stuff around the golf course (actually reminded me of Ashton Court). Was a bit moist though, and didnt have time to play around on the DH stuff near the monument (and was on a hard tail).

I can email from gps routes, or try and describe some otherwise.

I've written a quick summary of the meeting for anyone who's interested:

http://www.bristoltrailsgroup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43&start=0

If you could get funding for some of this and some more stone for the bits that don't drain too well that would be good, plus of course the man hours to put the stuff down of course.

Build it and they will come.

Now there's a surprise – the first phase will be to atract newbies! Call me cynical but there must be money in there them hills! Ashton court and the Timberland trail in particular could not be made any easier for newbies unless we're talking about family friendly cycle path type tracks. Funny, but when we first rode there as newbies (a long time ago), there were no specific tracks, it was technical and when it rained we got muddy – oh yes and the Timberland trail flowed in the right direction.
Lets just hope that trails like Ho Chi Minh 1,2 &2.5, picnic bench, chamonix and bluebell etc in leigh woods remained untouched (for the locals)and cyling is officially on a "right to roam" basis here – but i wont hold my health & safety breath.
I 'm sure Phil and his team will be do a first class job but lets hope the tracks dont end up like the middle part of timberland in fifty acre wood (formerly porn trail) where most of the holes have been filled and the trail significantly widened – ie sanitised!
Rant over – breakfast time!

Is there somewhere to wash the bikes off after a ride near the golf hut?

I can't help feeling this could all go very wrong and our 'interesting' trails become sanitised.

Hope I'm wrong.

I don't think the idea is to make the trails into wide flat cycle paths. Speaking to the guy who'll be doing the actual works, he has a background in landscape restoration, rides himself (he had just got back from Chamonix) and he also expressed concern over the heavy-handed way some of the trail had been fixed to date, specifically the Hawthorns section. No doubt the trails are going to have a much more "built" feel to them than what's there already, but they should also be narrower, hold up in the Bristol winter and flow a lot better.

The first phase of construction is going to be a blue level trail because there's no way they will get funding for a red or black run – it would be nice for the people who already ride, but it would do nothing to increase the overall number of people. The idea is to build it up in stages and have more challenging trails to follow.

We'll know come September what the design for the trails will actually be, and what additional facilities will be part of the development, but Clifton College (the golf course people) are supporting it, so there might be some provisions for cyclists without outside taps.

Peasnotwar, the trail has widened because of people avoiding the holes. The idea that we fixed the trail, then went to the effort of widening it too is just ridiculous. If you want to keep riding the knackered remains of Ho Chi Minh, they will probably still be there, but I bet you'll be too busy ragging the new trails to bother. 😉

I noticed that someone has started a bike hire facility at near the Golf Hut, nice idea should be a good business if all this trail development takes off.

As an exile, I'm scheduled to return to San Fran Bristo in 2010 (probably…).

Please, don't let the woods end up looking like this…. 😯

Aaarrrghh – thats fifty acre…. just kidding
Mr A, didn't mean to be negative but i am definitely getting more cynical as i get older ie why is a cup of tea now £1 in the golf hut – is it to pay for the fancy cladding on the outside or maybe the "no muddy cyclist" signs inside?(strange when their custom has increased significantly due to mtb's).
I used Ho Chi Minh as an example of the preferred type of trail for myself and riding budddies. Yes the original is now over used and messy but do you recall when it was first built and then extended? now that was spanking and the guys built it perfectly only for the FC to tear down the boardwalk sections etc.
I'm a believer in trail evolution – as one gets closed or disappears, another one is found – something we've been VERY fortunate with in the area.
It may be worthwhile doing a poll to ask who/how many have actually carried tools with them to maintain trails whilst riding – or who have gone out specifically to do it. I have, and i'm pretty sure i'm in the minority.
Anyway, keep the good work

peasnotwar, I was one of the people who helped fix up the Ho Chi Minh a few years back (before we started out officially). Despite our best efforts it got mullered very quickly and so have the unofficial trails that have sprung up to replace it. There are only a finite amount of places to ride and it seems that we are no longer at the point we were at a few years back, where if a trail got worn out we could just go and make another one. I also don't think that the type of trail maintenance you can do while out on a ride is enough to keep them in good nick. Even with proper organised sessions we struggle to keep on top of the damage that occurs every winter.

We also have trails like Ashton Court that have been put together in a haphazard fashion, so some bits are ridiculously easy, while others are pretty hard going even for keener riders. My girlfriend is a pretty handy rider, has done the Alps, etc, but she hates the TT because it's so lacking in flow.

I don't think it's as straightforward as saying that new official trails will prompt the closure of unofficial trails. It depends where they are and who manages them – Ashton Court might be a bit heavy-handed when it comes to closing off unofficial trails but that doesn't mean the same is going to apply over in Leigh Woods. The fact that people like the National Trust are supporting the project make me think that this might actually open up more of the woods to mountain bikers.

I think the mountain biking scene in Bristol will keep growing regardless of what state the trails are in, so unless we all want to keep riding the same slowly deteriorating trails forever, change needs to happen. If it works out that the official trails are fun to ride, great. If they turn out to be less engaging for experienced riders, then at least they will be a platform to build on.