I too now feel a bit like this thread is wasting my time.

On a more positive note, the tender for the trail build is being awarded next week, and work will begin really soon after.

No, that’s spot-on. It wasn’t done for that reason, but I reckon in the long term a more open canopy will benefit the trail there.

Indeed, I actually quite like the open feeling of 50 acre now.

@longwayhome

They contacted local clubs because they represent groups of riders that use the trails frequently, many of them for a long time, and have an interest in maintaining the trails. These clubs and groups exist partly to bring riders together and give them a collective voice precisely in situations like this.

I suppose they could have run a 6 month public consultation, taking in the opinions of mtb’ers, walkers, runners, pony clubs and everyone else that uses AC/LW, but that probably would have used up the whole budget before anyone even started to dig.

Now you’re just making stuff up. If you’re not affiliated to any of the local clubs, i’m not sure how you can come to that conclusion. BMBC certainly is not in favour of an “all weather at any price” trail. On the contrary we’d like to see the character of the trails remain as intact as possible, but at the same time recognise that some compromises are required to create a trail that doesn’t turn to shit after 30 minutes of drizzle.

As the saying goes, you can’t please all of the people all of the time. I’m not convinced that the 50-acre wood trails dry out quicker these days. An inevitable consequence of some of the trails disappearing may be that the remaining trails are used more, and hence require more maintenance? I’m sure with the fullness of time though that more offshoots from the main runs will be established.

Change is not made without inconvenience, even from worse to better – Samuel Johnson.

Also: longwayhome et al. You don’t own the trails, you’re willfully ignorant of local MTB issues. Suck it up.

Can I just mention that cutting down trees and having less canopy doesn’t give you drier trails at all times of year. Sure, exposing the ground to wind and sun helps, but during growing season big trees have a big thirst – bigger than Thirst Pockets and elephants put together.

ps – Hi Bristolians! I miss you guys 🙁

d1rty –

Now you’re just making stuff up. If you’re not affiliated to any of the local clubs, i’m not sure how you can come to that conclusion

Simply by reading the posts on this thread.

Firstly Bristol Trails Group. Now please don’t make me spend ages cutting and pasting quotes, but I think you’ll agree with me that MrAgreeable and others have made it abundantly clear that the Bristol Trails Group are fed up with continually fixing the existing trails and for this reason would like professionally built, all weather trails. They’d like technical interest but would really, really like not to have to mend them all the time.

I can understand this. It’s a thankless task, though I here publicly acknowledge and thank them for their hard work.

Now onto the mountain biking clubs. Back on the first page we have

flashes – Member
I’m in 2 minds, I don’t like gravelled paths but riding in Leigh Woods Tuesday night meant sticking to the fire roads, as the trails are pure mud, the AC trail is even worse, at least I would be able to ride all year round and Monday Cheesy rides could support normal numbers…

In other words flashes would really like to be able to ride the trails all year round come rain or shine, sometimes in a large group. Now I am making a bit of a supposition here, but I suggest that this is the prevailing attitude in all the clubs as they all seem to promote regular rides in AC/LW/FAW. I can understand why clubs like regular events and AC/LW/FAW is an easy option.

So, when did Bristol Mountain Bike Club last head out to AC/LW/FAW?

Fianlly you say

BMBC certainly is not in favour of an “all weather at any price” trail. On the contrary we’d like to see the character of the trails remain as intact as possible, but at the same time recognise that some compromises are required to create a trail that doesn’t turn to shit after 30 minutes of drizzle.

So you are placing wet-weather capability above technical interest then? By “at any price” I didn’t mean sell you children or lose a kidney, from the first post we’ve been talking about technical interest.

Now I am making a bit of a supposition here, but I suggest that this is the prevailing attitude in all the clubs

Quite a leap of faith there fella. Is it because the clubs take a responsible stance in the viability and future of the trails? Perhaps the clubs are all mincers who can’t handle a steep kerb. You really do keep digging don’t you?

This thread has given me untold amusement. I do love the way to some folk an eroded trail is “technical” and building a trail to be sustainable means it can no longer be “techical”

It is perfectly possible to build a trail that is sustainable in all weathers and still has technical interest.

Well done on getting the funding. It looks really promising. I’m sure Architrail will do a great job.

Is it because the clubs take a responsible stance in the viability and future of the trails?

They have a stance with regards to running rides there on a year-round basis.

Perhaps the clubs are all mincers who can’t handle a steep kerb

Sorry, you’ve lost me there, where did this come into the thread? Are you ranting about things I didn’t say again?

You really do keep digging don’t you?

Again, you’ve lost me. I thought I was discussing.

This thread has given me untold amusement

I’m sure it’s going to get even more amusing with you involved.

It is perfectly possible to build a trail that is sustainable in all weathers and still has technical interest.

But the whole point is that it’s going to be less interesting than it is at the moment.

You’re north of the border aren’t you? Have you been to Ashton Court much?

Longwayhome, who told you the new trails will be less interesting than they are at the moment???

Have some faith. It’s going to be an awesome set of trails once it’s finished.

But the whole point is that it’s going to be less interesting than it is at the moment.

Really? You never know with interested people on side and funding in place you might get something really good.

Flat, smooth paths can be entertaining too. I refer to the trail known as Hawthornes. Once that had bedded down a bit and ridden in the downhill direction, it was (maybe still is) an absolute hoot. Twisty, fast, loose under wheel and with the trees in very close proximity. No mud, no roots – some more like that would be cool.

I’m happy with the thought of being able to ride all year around without doing damage. I don’t help maintain, so I do try and avoid shagged trails. And I’m hoping it’ll remain interesting. I’m an optimist and what ever happens it is fab to be able to ride 20 minutes from my house, (pretty well in the middle of a city) and ride off road.

Too Tall, have you banged your head on a door frame or something…

longwayhome – Member
But the whole point is that it’s going to be less interesting than it is at the moment.

Really? And you know this how?

TandemJeremy – Member
It is perfectly possible to build a trail that is sustainable in all weathers and still has technical interest.

Quite.

I did a mimble round the trails today with the designers, the project manager and some journos who are running a feature on the project next month. Some interesting points came out of this:

1. As I suspected, there’s going to be substantially more singletrack in the new trail than the old one. All the old muddy hacks along the edges of fields will go.

2. The trail corridor includes some bits of the estate that were previously off limits.

3. Contrary to what I posted above, the bashy downhill by the side of New Barn Wood is going to make its way into the trail – the new downhill section is being built before it and will feed into it.

4. Tedious internet debates suck logs

(I made the last one up, but it’s undeniably true)

Sounds good Ant 🙂

Where’s New Barn Wood?

Sounds good……….

bit between the end of upper quarry and the arena.

So, when did Bristol Mountain Bike Club last head out to AC/LW/FAW?

was in ac and faw,wraxle,plantation last and most sundays usualy lw on tuesdays

Wraxle? Where the flip is Wraxle?

wraxle pist just on the edge of cleavdon rd that runs up back of ac at the lights junction pass it on way to plantation(ashton hill) from faw-ac top entrances

edit – woodland on junction of beggerbush lane and b3128 cleavdon rd there is a small entrance on the right coming from ac with a small sign and wooden gate/blockage thing

Perhaps Wraxall?

yeah may have the spelling slightley out lol

thanks tootall.

Wraxall peice in Failand on the corner of Beggar bush lane and clevedon road. 😉

indeed

just watch the rabbit/badger holes 😆

I think you’ll agree with me that MrAgreeable and others have made it abundantly clear that the Bristol Trails Group are fed up with continually fixing the existing trails and for this reason would like professionally built, all weather trails. They’d like technical interest but would really, really like not to have to mend them all the time.

Well, the other option we had was to stop mending them ourselves and start looking for some money to build a handmade technical trail. But I doubt anyone would be willing to fund the creation of a “red” grade trail in a busy country park, on mostly flat terrain, with all sorts of users including complete beginners. The rationale for the new trails is to increase the number of riders, not let the existing ones ride more. I doubt you’d be able to find a contractor willing to build it either – all of them use machinery extensively to get the trails made in a cost and time effective way.

What you’d get then is a rapidly deteriorating trail with mud and slop persisting well into the summer, as was the situation a few years ago, before regular trail maintenance began.

A few people might enjoy these conditions but most would probably give up on the trails and go and find new places to ride, become roadies or take up golf. Events like Bristol Bike Fest would become a thing of the past, the number of cyclists in Bristol would dwindle. It’s not unlikely that the trails would end up being closed due to environmental concerns – it’s already 15 feet wide in places due to the number of new lines spring up to avoid the mud, rocks and ruts.

…but what about the cafe?

Why are they pulling down technical cafe we already have and replacing it with a sanitized one?

Longwayhome – how long have you been in Bristol? If you’re newish then you have a very rose tinted view of the local trails as this last year or so has been great due to the frost and the very long dry spell. If you were around in 2008 /9 then you will have seen the trails at their worst :-(.

If you were here then and still claim to be ‘in the dark’ around the moves being suggested then shame on you for not getting actively involved and then criticising those that could be bothered to get actively involved

For what it is worth we rode locally at the w/e and every one of my riding buddies welcomes the proposals and believes that a weather proof AC is worth some trade offs (and frankly we don’t know what those are yet!!!). In crappy weather we will have something decent to ride and in good we can go and scare ourselves down the gorge runs.

Ant – top work, as always, just remember to personally talk to Longwayhome in the future and to then actively work his proposals for him.

@tandaylor…

When I am not riding round Ashton Court, I am walking round it with my kids or playing golf there with my mates…

Can I say that the Cafe being kicked off site is not at all like the Glentress Hub…

The ladies who work in that cafe are miserable to walkers, golfers bikers and children. I feel like I am really imposing on them tio make me coffee. I am not the only one who gets this vibe. These ladies would surely be happier in another occupation! I say that a sanitised cafe with polite and friendly staff would be a massive improvement for AC.

I wrote to the guys running this operation and here is some of the response…

“I’ll forward on your suggestions to the project manager of the cafe – Alberto Palmerio. I’d love to see something like Afan Argoed’s cafe (the trail centre near Port Talbot) and I do hope that the MTB community come forwards with more feedback like this.”

He also confirmed that bike washing facilities might be available for the site!

Flat, smooth paths can be entertaining too. I refer to the trail known as Hawthornes. Once that had bedded down a bit and ridden in the downhill direction, it was (maybe still is) an absolute hoot. Twisty, fast, loose under wheel and with the trees in very close proximity. No mud, no roots – some more like that would be cool.

Whoo! somone else agrees with me re: Hawthorns.

Re Bristol cycling clubs: it is wrong to say that those consulted were all unequivocally keen on the new trail developments – a great many had exactly the same reservations expressed here regards ‘sanitisation’ and ‘losing old trails’, and were either won around, or have come to the understanding that the trails as they are have had their day.

Can someone tell me where this Hawthornes trail is… I wanna go on it!

Basically the Beggar Bush lane section of the TT. You’ve almost certainly ridden it already.

@charliebigpotato
The existing golf hut cafe women have always been alright to me, ok not to the standard of Glycorrwg but way above the terrible food and service of the original Afan site or Cwmcarn.

The Hawthorns section is the twisty bit through the lower bush like trees (hawthorns). There are clearings in in when you come out into the open with the golf course to one side and Beggar Bush Lane to the other. It’s fast twisty fun but suffers more than the rest of the trail from meeting riders coming in the other direction so I often choose the wall trail instead.

Ant and all,
I’ve read this with interest, I hope the development is a success, I’m sure it will be. Bristol has some great trails, if a few more people had come out to repair them then a state of, eroded but fun rooty stuff might have been possible. Unfortunately from bitter experience winter trail biulding sessions month in and month out were usually Ant and about 4 or 6 others on average, maybe less. Simply not enough. The trals have got wider and wider, straighter and straighter, muddier, rutted, wet in th winter (and summer too often), the tree roots get too exposed and become damaged, the trees suffer. It can’t go on. Rowan Sorrel is a respected trail biulder. Personally I enjoy some of his stuff, but actually enjoy ‘natural’ feeling stuff more than a lot of Rowan’s work, but the current trail construction in Bristol can’t continue.
Good news Ant. I’m jealous. Wish we had trails and development like this in South London!

@Cheers_drive

Oh – yeah – I know it (thanks for clarifying)… And agree with other comments, it is a nice fast section that contrasts the more – er – technical offerings that AC has to offer. I would say that the whole course runs better in reverse and this Hawthorne section becomes very fast (as per BikeFest race). As for the cafe… well, I’ve had friendlier service and better food, but can’t contrast to many other trail sites… I just think that Bristol can do better than that!

Spot on there Neil. It’s very demoralising when you have to fix the same bits of trail over and over again. We do get a lot of people saying lovely things about us, but there comes a point where I’d rather be riding a bike than pushing a barrow.

Rowan Sorrel is a respected trail biulder. Personally I enjoy some of his stuff, but actually enjoy ‘natural’ feeling stuff more than a lot of Rowan’s work

The trail build contract hasn’t been awarded yet, but the design and consultation work was actually carried out by Phil Saxena’s company Architrail. Different chap entirely!

I think that whoever ends up building it, it’s going to be a hoot to ride. There are good sections in the current trail but it’s such a variable experience (it’s going to be poop on a stick at the moment) and as a whole it’s a bit lacking.

Phil Saxena, ah I’ve heard of him. Wonder why I thought it was Rowan, must have got confused. Anyway, I’m sure it will be fun to ride. Keep up the good work Ant.