He did that at Garmin (/Slipstream), not Sky. 2009.

And JV was pretty quick to distance himself from that, saying he (Wiggins) was being coached by BC….

Cycling has always been dirty is a crap argument and the peg that people use to hang their own prejudices on. The world changes all the time, that’s how history works. It’s a lazy, determinist, naive way of arguing. How about some evidence-based debate that goes beyond just making stuff up?

Not crap really, I’ve been hearing it’s clean cycling at least since the 1999 Tour of Redemption. You remember how that went? Until I see believable displays I’ll not believe in them.

And as for making things up, works for Brailsford. Sauce for the goose and all that… 😉

Essentially I don’t really see how clean riders would be able to beat doping ones over a 3 week grand tour

Because it’s really hard to dope during a tour now? And there’s only a handful of guys capable of winning GC, the majority of whom are most-probably clean.

The only GT win that really stands out for me in the last few years is Chris Horner at the Vuelta in 2013.

Because it’s really hard to dope during a tour now?

Is it? How so? Wada didn’t even know about micro-dosing until Landis spilt his guts. There’s versions of EPO that aren’t even detectable (some aren’t even on the market yet!). The blood passport is way too loose to have that much faith in. And what about all the new stuff that the testers (or us for that matter) don’t know about yet? The dopers have all just stopped doing what they’ve always done?

Do you think Armstrong managed his comeback 3rd place clean?

Don’t be bloody obtuse you know it’s harder to dope.

Don’t be bloody obtuse you know it’s harder to dope.

Harder, maybes. But that doesn’t mean you can’t get away with it cf chakapings Mr Horner for instance.

I’d be surprised if it wasn’t possible for the knowledgable and determined. It’s been on the go since when, ’08? I’d say Lance managed it (wasn’t that the way USADA got an in to strike all those SoL tour wins?)

You guys are always wanting proof, prove to me it’s too hard

retired to take up ski jumping!

The issue is that sports science is such a huge area of both research and margin (financial and performance)that it is always one step ahead. I think the knowledge that is available to big teams allows them to dope, Ive always believed they did this using cocktails of TUEs and PEDs at certain times leading up to and through events.

Dont forget that until 2006 taking PEDs in Spain was not illegal – hence tennis, athletes, cyclists and footballers living and ‘working’ there were hugely successful.

BC/SKY has tremendous resource to ensure absolute marginal gains as proven by TUEs through to mahoosive budgets, anything is possible and in cycling probable. You guys saying the history of the sport argument is allowing our prejudices are really, really naive.

It is not just cycling, it is just that cycling takes it more seriously, more fool them? Imagine the other sports that could be dragged to their knees by WADA given the resource.

Joey Deacon sums it up well

Edit: Since 2006, things have improved, mainly because it got harder with the changes in Spain imho

Wiggins claiming he didn’t suffer any illnesses during 2012 to it emerging he required performance enhancing TUE medication just before a Grand Tour, which is only needed in extreme circumstances

This, for me, is the only issue. It’s written in his autobiography and having not been denied/countered is IMHO an admission that TUE was used for gain rather than true treatment.

Legal but diminishing

retired to take up ski jumping!

All very odd.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-38490980

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETxmCCsMoD0[/video]

Bradley Wiggins talking about Lance Armstrong

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQjcPDg0UzY[/video]

Today’s updates…

Simon Cope invited to give evidence to MPs
and
Claims of mechanical doping at the Tour de France – Sky mentioned..

Oh and here’s the 60 mins piece:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/enhancing-the-bike/
and
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-hidden-magnets-the-next-big-cheat-in-cycling/