Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 57 total)
  • Boris wants to fine cyclists who don't use bike lanes
  • cynic-al
    Free Member

    Its a way of making sure cyclists use his cycle super highways I guess, have they been judged as white by the cycling community perhaps?

    haggis1978
    Full Member

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    MSP
    Full Member

    To be fair, I think motorists driving down bike lanes will also be fined.

    thegreatape
    Free Member

    Case law is not on his side.

    Phil_H
    Full Member

    It’ll make Jason Wells happy 😀

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Has anyone actually read the link. It makes perfect sense, this is the important part

    The rule is likely to apply only to fully segregated bike lanes where a physical barrier protects cyclists from other traffic.

    So if you have a dedicated separate bike lane with a barrier to keep out other traffic it’s use should be mandatory. Makes sense to me

    ribena
    Free Member

    It makes sense unless you’re only going a few hundred meteres, in which case you’d have to cross 4 lanes of traffic on embankment to reach the cycle lane, cycle for a bit, then cross 4 lanes of traffic to get back to the other side of the road.

    DezB
    Free Member

    Cyclists in London

    Whatever.

    retro83
    Free Member

    jambalaya – Member

    Has anyone actually read the link. It makes perfect sense, this is the important part

    The rule is likely to apply only to fully segregated bike lanes where a physical barrier protects cyclists from other traffic.

    So if you have a dedicated separate bike lane with a barrier to keep out other traffic it’s use should be mandatory. Makes sense to me

    Yes I did.

    Firstly that itself is a bad idea for various reasons, they’re too narrow and mix up very slow and very fast cyclists, and already too busy, send you against traffic, etc.

    Secondly they will give ammunition to ignorant twits who think we shouldn’t be allowed to ride on the road when there is a cycle lane, no matter how unsuitable.

    Thirdly it paves the way to making all cycle lanes in cities throughout the country mandatory.

    If they’re good enough, people will use them without needing to be forced.

    DezB
    Free Member

    Thirdly it paves the way to making all cycle throughout the country lanes mandatory

    No it doesn’t.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    Totally disagree. It’s designed to address a symptom, not the cause. A segregation is the opposite to integration. You’ll never overcome the cultural issue with attitudes towards cyclists if you shepherd them out of the way into walled pens. Not unless the space for these highways is space taken from motorists and the cyclist is presented as being a higher priority, otherwise the car will remain king and drivers will continue with their feudal attitude.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    Beyond that, I have no strong opinion!

    mtbmatt
    Free Member

    Pretty sure thats how it works in the Netherlands?
    If there is a separate bike lane, cyclists must use it.

    So long as they are well thought out and well kept/swept, then it makes sense I think.

    scaredypants
    Full Member

    So if you have a dedicated separate bike lane with a barrier to keep out other traffic it’s use should be mandatory. Makes sense to me

    As long as it’s actually going your way, I guess maybe – or do you have to use it as far as you can, say a hundred yards, then get off, cross the barrier and only then use the road ? How will they judge that – do they observe you for ages before stopping you ?

    I wonder if you can bill Boris right back when a lane becomes unusable due to glass/rubble/litter/potholes/pedestrians etc ?

    What if it’s jammed with really slow cyclists ?

    WHat if motorists begin to assume cyclists don’t belong on any roads ?

    Dodgy precedent, IMO, making it mandatory

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @retro we don’t know how big these cycles lanes will be as as far as I know none have been built / designated as yet. We are not entitled to drive our cars where we like, there are rules including with respect to bus lanes for example. Seems reasonable that if significant amounts of money is spent on building designated cycle lanes that cyclists are obliged to use them and they are not clogging up roads.

    @scardy if a cycle lane is clogged up with slow cyclists you’ll have to cycle slowly, just like a motorist who has to drive slowly if the road is clogged up with slow driver or a bus !

    stevew
    Free Member

    Perhaps he’s being advised by the York bus driver who hurled abuse at me (with a bus full of school kids) earlier for riding on the road rather than the cycle path on the curb.

    Funnily enough I chose the uninterumpted mile stretch of road rather than the adjacent cycle lane that has eight separate lateral roads coming into the main road, stopping and starting (or slowing at least) constantly versus a straight run on the road? Easy choice for me and I chose to legally ride on the road.

    Other threads have obv covered this recently but the speed of route is key for me and the majority of our cycle tracks simply don’t support the needs of many cyclists vers people on bikes.

    cynic-al
    Free Member

    I’m not with you Andy, thin end of a wedge for a start, also cyclists have a right to be on the road by right not licence.

    Roads tend to be clogged up by traffic, not slow drivers, totally different.

    Hasn’t Boris’s east west bridge bike path been roundly harangued?

    gwaelod
    Free Member

    If you build proper bike infrastructure you don’t need to force people to use it.

    FFS

    hebdencyclist
    Free Member

    And THIS is the problem with separate infrastructure. It reinforces the notion that the roads are not for bikes.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    jambalaya – Member

    @retro we don’t know how big these cycles lanes will be as as far as I know none have been built / designated as yet. We are not entitled to drive our cars where we like, there are rules including with respect to bus lanes for example.

    Buses are allowed to leave bus lanes when they want to.

    As soon as you have a situation where the cycle lane isn’t the best way to complete the journey- which will happen all the time- this is moronic.

    bigblackshed
    Full Member

    Boris is an asshat.

    Yes, if anything demonstrates the poverty of ambition for cycling provision, it is the idea that you should be using the force of law to compel people to use it. As others have said, well designed infrastructure would be the natural choice.

    brooess
    Free Member

    It demonstrates massive lack of faith in cycle superhighways IMO. If he thought they were good enough for people to use them because they’re the best solution available, then he wouldn’t have to put in punitive measures to force people to use them, he’d have confidence they’d use them anyway…

    Given people don’t need a licence to cycle and are on the highway as of right, is there any legal basis people can be punished for using it if they’re riding in a manner which is otherwise legal?

    He also has to accept capacity issues… how can someone use the lane if it’s already full?

    I suspect he knows full well how badly this will go down with the cycling community in London – it’s probably a pretence to keep the antis quiet for a while.

    And anyone who dismisses this because it’s ‘London’ – come and cycle round London – the rise in numbers in the last few years has been massive – it’s wonderful to see and it’s a great proof of concept that with the right pressure and the right approach, we can make all UK cities cycling-friendly – the whole country will benefit from the example London is setting right now

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    To those who beilve this is a good idea do you still think this should hold if the cyclist is travelling at 100% of the motorised traffic speed? What about 75%, 50%? And what if the cyclist only drops below this % for 5 seconds, 10 second 30 seconds? Does it still matter

    Or do you beilve that no matter whatever the speed differences involved, bike traffic level and motorised traffic level, if the is a segregated bike lane then bikes should keep to the bike lane.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    And anyone who dismisses this because it’s ‘London’ – come and cycle round London – the rise in numbers in the last few years has been massive – it’s wonderful to see and it’s a great proof of concept that with the right pressure and the right approach, we can make all UK cities cycling-friendly – the whole country will benefit from the example London is setting right now

    Agreed cycling around London works and is more pleasant than cycling around most other urban area in the UK I have cycled in, rush hour or middle of the night.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    cyclists are obliged to use them and they are not clogging up roads.

    How are the cyclists cloggingup the roads any more than the rest f the traffic.

    Even if a cyclist slows a motor car it does not mean that it has altered its overall journey time or average speed. As someone who currently drives to work along a route with poor availability of overtaking and a reasonable number of cyclists most of the time I am unable to overtake I does not alter my journey time. It is just traffic.

    DT78
    Free Member

    I’m coming to the opinion we should just remove all cycle lanes and make the roads wider. How about we remove footpaths too.

    For the second time I got abuse yesterday for riding on the road and not on a short parallel shared use path, which had dogs and children on and every few hundred metres has junctions. I was travelling at 27mph and the car was able to pass easily, as they had enough time to wind down the window and shout and gesture at me. Really really effing me off, and stupid comments from boris only add to the problem.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    Boris is talking about the new cycle lanes which are being built to a much better standard.

    I suspect however, that it would be nigh on impossible to construct a law that means cyclists have to use *only* these new cycle lanes, but aren’t required to use any others, which are 99% crap.

    Maybe this is a crafty press release to make it clear to LTDA and haulage lobbyists that he has considered making it compulsory, so when we inevitably find out that this isn’t possible, he can say it wasn’t his fault.

    The timing of this announcement seems very close to that Jason Wells road rage video too, maybe that prompted it?

    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    @jambalya – cyclists don’t clog up roads, cars do that! I’d be able to cycle around my town much faster without all the cars and busses in the way 😉

    aracer
    Free Member

    Where the worst cycle paths which are being phased out and upgraded are still better than anything Boris is building. It makes sense if you have proper cycling infrastructure and there really is no advantage to cycling on the road, but to achieve that you have to make the cycling routes more convenient than the road, rather than just a place to send the cyclists to get them out of the way.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Don’t worry, its not compulsory to agree and certainly not with me on here

    As an aside I read about the number of bike hire schemes that are closing (a couple in France) and the operator in NYC has gone bust. I was stunned to see that the average scheme costs between £,500 and £4,000 per anum per bike 😯 Costs are for the docking stations, maintenance and the vans which have to move the bikes round every day. The sponsorship and usage fees don’t come close to paying for the schemes.

    toby1
    Full Member

    Well the one I was using this morning was 100% blocked by an Audi A4 estate stopping to pick up a pedestrian ahead of me, so I hopped into the road instead. I’d like to have seen someone remonstrate with me over that.

    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    The point is – cars cause congestion – not cyclists.

    plumber
    Free Member

    I wonder if you can bill Boris right back when a lane becomes unusable due to glass/rubble/litter/potholes/pedestrians etc ?

    I can get round the other issues but this stops me using cycle lanes pretty much anywhere.

    I live and work in and around London (unfortunately) and will continue to use what ever path, road, pavement io believe will get me to where I need to be without being killed

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Well the one I was using this morning was 100% blocked by an Audi A4 estate stopping to pick up a pedestrian ahead of me, so I hopped into the road instead. I’d like to have seen someone remonstrate with me over that.

    So that wasn’t the type of protected lane (eg with a kerb) whic Boris was referring to. Lanes just painted on aren’t going to be subject to the proposal.

    I live and work in and around London (unfortunately) and will continue to use what ever path, road, pavement io believe will get me to where I need to be without being killed


    @plumber
    that’s fair enough, I sneak round the pavement to dodge red lights if I am turning left for example but we should all appreciate we don’t have a right to do that and if there is an accident with a pedestrian for example we could well get sued.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    jambalaya – Member

    As an aside I read about the number of bike hire schemes that are closing (a couple in France) and the operator in NYC has gone bust. I was stunned to see that the average scheme costs between £,500 and £4,000 per anum per bike Costs are for the docking stations, maintenance and the vans which have to move the bikes round every day. The sponsorship and usage fees don’t come close to paying for the schemes.

    Are they supposed to pay for themselves? The health and transport benefits must be considerable, it’s £1400 per boris bike apparently but that’s a lot of congestion reduced, strain off other transport methods, boost to tourism etc. Direct cost savings to users too.

    They can make money- the velib does, though it’s a pretty complicated arrangement with the billboards etc. But I don’t think it’s a good metric of success

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    No not necessarily but if they lose too much they get shut down or go bust like the one in New York. Like everything the idea is one thing but making it work and work financially is more tricky.

    dbcooper
    Free Member

    Cannot believe this video has not been posted yet. Just show him this.

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ[/video]

    kimbers
    Full Member

    Im not sure what the health benefits of cycling in London are vs heavy breathing some of the most polluted air in Europe.
    Bus strikes lead to a huge reduction in central London air pollution and reduction in hospital admittances for breathing difficulties and heart attacks.
    Borris’ vanity projevt Routemasters for all their cost were pushed through with engines that fall foul of new EU pollution laws.
    He has managed to claim the glory of implementing kens hire bike scheme as his own and handed Barclay’s a huge advertising g coup in the process.
    The kind of segregated lanes he’s talking about don’t exists because he took men’s orginial superhighway plans and dumped them in favour of painting some if the most dangerous stretches of road in London Barclay’s blue and calling them ‘safe’.

    Ultimately its all just headline grabbing nonsense appealing to the old right wingers out there for his forthcoming leadership and election campaigns(see also his comments about a free vote on EU membership etc)

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 57 total)

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