For me, and it seems common in Wales, it’s not England the nation, it’s the English rugby team. We’re more than happy to support England at football, we even play cricket on the same team along with most other sports.

And your happy the England and Wales Cricket Board is abbreviated to the ECB. Which sums up the arrogance of English organisations- media, sport and otherwise. I have nothing against English people, I class myself as British before Scottish but just can’t be bothered with the aforementioned arrogance.

I can’t think of a single sport other than rugby union where England and Scotland could be called rivals.

really – Soccer is the obvious one – so that is the two “main sports” in both countries!

So many of my friends today have been on Facebook cheering on the welsh, they are genuinely delighted that England lost. I think this is really sad, sport should be about cheering the winners not the losers.

eh, but they were cheering the winners.

Something deep-fried on their shoulder?

I assume that was ironic stereotyping rather than serious?

I would think most English people wouldn’t give Scotland a second thought…..

I think this might be where some of the ‘friendly resentment’ comes from!

This pretty much sums it up. I’ll be surprised if they manage to mention the Scotish team in the pre match chatter before we play the French… they’ll still be prattling on about England (with some honorable mentions for Wales, who were very deserving winners… what a match!!).

That I believe is a big part of it. We get “British” TV but in sport British TV largely = English TV. This means we get to hear commentators and pundits gloating about how wonderful england are and how 1966 is about to be repeated every time England play any sport.

I’m pretty sure this type of attitude is not shared with other home nations (but happy to be told otherwise).

I believe it is – although perhaps not quite as strongly. The Irish are an odd bunch because of their particular politics – but certainly some of them enjoy watching england loose. I work with quite a few Welsh people and there is definitely a similar “not-english” sentiment. I also think you will find that the French would rather anyone except England won the championship! There may be more tying together these ‘celtic’ nations than there is between England and Scotland.

Does anyone else think this just reflects really badly on those people who are so negative?

not really – I’ve know many people who will have been pleased at the result for the reasons highlighted here – but don’t know anyone who would wish any Englishman any harm or disadvantage. Is the whole point of sport not that there is a rivalry; and is the whole point of rugby not so that posh boys can hit each other? I think you would see similar behaviour in England if Germany make it to a world cup final. Indeed there is even some anti french sentiment.

However,

I’ve lived in Scotland all of my adult live, nearly half of my life has been spent here. I properly love it. My kids have all been born here and I regard them as scottish.

when Scotland play England who do you support? Is there any rational reason for it? A national allegiance to a country you were born in but chose to leave a very long time ago?

franksinatra – Member

…So many of my friends today have been on Facebook cheering on the welsh, they are genuinely delighted that England lost. I think this is really sad, sport should be about cheering the winners not the losers…

Strewth mate, you’ve never been to Oz, have you? Their ABE makes the Scots look like Pommy lovers….

The inferior resenting the superior is nothing new.

when Scotland play England who do you support? Is there any rational reason for it? A national allegiance to a country you were born in but chose to leave a very long time ago?

Talking of Oz, you only have to go to NZ to experience the ‘I support anyone who is playing the Aussies’. As for the Scots, this was explained to me years ago by someone who told me that from about the age of 5 they had been taught about the perfidious English and all that they had done to them. Hardly any wonder if that still holds true.

Yep. The Scots hate the English as we are generally their more successful neighbours and such petty rivalries are as good a backlash as they can get.

Pity them

The girlfriend is Scottish and she’s always banging on about all the ills we English have brought to them up there Scots. I don’t really understand it myself, you’d think they’d be over it by now, you know, hundreds of years later.

And your happy the England and Wales Cricket Board is abbreviated to the ECB. Which sums up the arrogance of English organisations- media, sport and otherwise

I don’t disagree with the anglocentricism. After all the UK (and therefore Wales) is referred to as England all of the world, the other parts of it are definitely afterthoughts to most people. In terms of national significance the Welsh get a far worse deal than the Scottish.

However I wouldn’t call it arrogance. Arrogance is assuming you are better than everyone else (which English rugby fans are often guilty of), this is more like thinking other people don’t matter.

Why can’t the English, accept the fact they are English. I know you don’t want to be English, but you are. Get over it.

Anti-(insert nationality of your choice) on this forum? Nooooo, neverrrrrrrr… .

As for not wishing any Englishman harm or disadvantage. I’ve wished a lot worse than that on some. Notably Blair, Clarkson, and as I’m too lazy to compile my own list: 100 Worst Britons – The Results!

Tony Blair
Jordan
Margaret Thatcher
Jade Goody
Martin Bashir
Gareth Gates
Alex Ferguson
‘H’ from Steps
Gerri Halliwell
The Queen
Liam Gallagher
Chris Evans
Victoria Beckham
Rik Waller
Anthea Turner
Bernard Manning
Robbie Williams
Peter Stringfellow
Neil and Christine Hamilton
Jim Davidson
Charlotte Church
Darren Day
Lady Victoria Hervey
Prince Charles
Anne Robinson
Edwina Curry
Chris Moyles
Jamie Oliver
Cliff Richard
Max Clifford
The 3AM Girls
Naomi Campbell
Simon Cowell
Sarah Cox
Harry Potter
Tara Palmer Tomkinson
James Hewitt
Andrew Lloyd Webber
Catherine Zeta Jones
Prince Edward
Tracy Emin
Lawrence Llewelyn Bowen
Mick Hucknall
Michael Winner
Pete Waterman
Prince Naseem Hamed
Ainsley Harriot
Trinny and Susannah
Peter Mandleson
Ken Livingstone
Darius Danesh
Amanda Holden
Zoe Ball
Martine McCutchaon
Elton John
Ant and Dec
Alisdair Campbell
Ozzy Osbourne
Byers and Moore
Richard Madely
Vinnie Jones
Alan Titchmarch
Countess of Wessex
Chris Tarrant
Ben Elton
Jeremy Clarkson
Jeremy Spake
Carol Vorderman
David Dickinson
Frank Skinner
Paul Burrell
Tom Jones
Sarah Ferguson
Carol Smilie
Liz Hurley
Princess Anne
Guy Ritchie
Delia Smith
Jonny Vaughn
Peter Tatchell
Sting
Gordon Ramsay
Mick Jagger
Damien Hurst
Julie Burchill
Richard Branson
John Prescott
Judith Chalmers
Cherie Blair
Nigella Lawson
David Beckham
Will Young
Vanessa Feltz
Anne Widdecombe
Davina McCall
Chris Eubank
Lord Irving
Craig David
Iain Duncan Smith
Atomic Kitten

The girlfriend is Scottish and she’s always banging on about all the ills we English have brought to them up there Scots. I don’t really understand it myself, you’d think they’d be over it by now, you know, hundreds of years later.

It’s not even just that, even if I was alive hundreds of years ago. I’d have been a farm hand in Norfolk with no control over the actions of the state anyway.

Blame anyone, blame the toffs

The girlfriend is Scottish and she’s always banging on about all the ills we English have brought to them up there Scots. I don’t really understand it myself, you’d think they’d be over it by now, you know, hundreds of years later.

I suspect that the period 1979 – 1990 (or 1997) probably has more to do with current resentment than Culloden or the Highland Clearances.

Why can’t the English, accept the fact they are English. I know you don’t want to be English, but you are. Get over it.

🙂

Cheeky bugger

To be honest, I hate the English teams because they’re full of black people.

They’re such amazing athletes, I’m proper jealous and wish we had a more diverse team!

However I wouldn’t call it arrogance. Arrogance is assuming you are better than everyone else (which the English rugby fans are often guilty of), this is more like thinking other people don’t matter.

FTFY 😉

Fair point tho.

Something deep-fried on their shoulder?
This.

I would think most English people wouldn’t give Scotland a second thought…..

That is why they hate us so much, the fact that nobody down here really cares about Scotland or what it’s people think. It’s just a cold backward country where whiskey comes from and low quality racist football.
They expect jingoism in return for their chest beating but get indifference.
The independence thing makes me laugh, are they expecting us to beg them to stay?
It’s draughty shut the door on your way out.

really – Soccer is the obvious one – so that is the two “main sports” in both countries!

We are not rivals. England are a top 10 team. Scotland struggle to make any major tournaments. Ask any football fan, Germany are our rivals at football.

That is why they hate us so much, the fact that nobody down here really cares about Scotland or what it’s people think. It’s just a cold backward country where whiskey comes from and low quality racist football.
They expect jingoism in return for their chest beating but get indifference in return.
The independence thing makes me laugh, are they expecting us to beg them to stay?
It’s draughty shut the door on your way out.

Some good points in here. No-one down here hates the scots. We are too busy doing other stuff.

And I’ll just repeat- this is nothing to do with “hating” the English, this is just sporting tribal rivalry as you’ll see between many supporters of clubs.

Mel Gibson should be put on trial at the Hague.

And I’ll just repeat- this is nothing to do with “hating” the English, this is just sporting tribal rivalry as you’ll see between many supporters of clubs.

Probably for some, but for others it’s more than a sporting rivalry.

Only for the terminally over-sensitive.

An ex-girlfriend worked with a Scottish guy in Reading who was so anti-English he was almost out of control – as in didn’t seem to realise that anti-English rants wouldn’t go down too well with a bunch of English people. 😯

His colleagues did query why he’d moved here if he hated us so much…

If a Scot hates an Englishman because of where he was born, it’s just clear xenophobia surely? When Andy Murray made his ‘anyone but the English comment’ he just made himself look immature IMO… there’s no excuse for it really…

Andy Murray? Again? I thought that one had been comprehensively debunked by the “recipient” of the joke?

As for not wishing any Englishman harm or disadvantage. I’ve wished a lot worse than that on some. Notably Blair, Clarkson, and as I’m too lazy to compile my own list: 100 Worst Britons – The Results!

Tony Blair

That would be the same Tony Blair who was born and educated in Edinburgh, then?

really – Soccer is the obvious one – so that is the two “main sports” in both countries!

Not really, as we’re unspeakably shite at football and have been for a long time. Rugby Union is about the only sport in which we can run the hated English close, and even then, we’ve not beaten them since 2008.

Justifying ABE by history is just lazy as a lot of the ‘things the English did to us’ were done to us by other Scots on the English side, as we’ve never shied back from fighting amongst ourselves (the Glasgow-Edinburgh rivalry is clear evidence of that). As has been said above, you just have to look at the Aus-NZ/US-Can sporting relationships to see other examples of ‘Anyone But…’; I think it’s just a natural result of being overshadowed by a much larger culturally similar neighbour.

Andy

DOI Expat Glaswegian stuck in Pennine Lancs.

Only for the terminally over-sensitive.

I refer my learned friend to the graphic in my previous post 😀

Andy Murray? Again?

Ironic, isn’t it? We get slagged off for holding a grudge, yet… And anyway, I thought the people in England were too busy doing stuff to worry about what we think?

Without getting into all of the posts on this I completely hate the “support anyone against England” attitude, it’s completely pathetic.It’s definitely not everyone though, maybe not even a majority, but it’s pathetic nonetheless.

TS

Its puzzling because to a man I have found Scots to be fine folk and hospitable. My theory is that their history lessons veer toward anti-English sentiment. Its not surprising when their country has been effectively annexed several times. Mostly the xenophobia is kept in check, but sport is one of those occasions when it can be indulged. Just let it go.

I suspect that the period 1979 – 1990 (or 1997) probably has more to do with current resentment than Culloden or the Highland Clearances.

After Blair and Brown we can say they have managed to even up 😉

FWIW, when I was school the history we were taught was English history. We had a wall frieze in primary that had all the kings and queens from the Roman conquest to the present day. That would be the kings and queens of England.

scotroutes – Member

That would be the Kong’s and queens of England.

King Kong , was he English ?

No Scottish history when I was at school in the 80s either. Not sure if it’s different now.

basically the Scottish people have agreed to cheer on any team who are up against England because of this:

We’re sick of hearing about it, and we don’t want you to win anything so you can’t bang on about that for the next 40 odd years

I’m part way through Micheal Lynch’ Scotland a new history

Thoroughly recommend it.

Ps, you started it.

Not sure if it’s different now.

Ours have at least 1 week a year dedicated as Scottish week plus a large dose of Scots language teaching throughout the year. Seems a pity that there is no British or European week though.

I’m English and live in scotland I’ve also lived in Wales and Ireland.
I have only experienced good old banter about being English in day to day life but when sports and alcohol is involved nice normal folk just turn into proper bigoted xenophobes.
I hate the way this extreme behaviour is just accepted, if the same behaviour was exhibited in an english office environment somebody would be reprimanded.

I wrongly thought the Olympics did so much to bring us together. It stands out when the OP tries to point out what could be perceived as anti English views in Scotland, and people from both sides of the border come on with such insightful viewpoints. Especially Patriotpro, who comes across as someone who really knows what they are talking about.

😀

DSC00003 by Richard Munro, on Flickr

Frank

Don’t worry about it, just remind these ‘Scots’ that there is no such thing as been ‘Scottish’ (their passport says UK) and that everyone that happens to live in (the region known as) Scotland gets to vote in the Independence Vote.

See, both you and me are ‘Scots’ on that day 🙂

And my wife is of Welsh stock, so I’m surprised you didn’t hear the cheer over the Eildons.