Great looking dog Woffle.
Lets not forget, these, like all dogs, were working breeds. The KC has merely tried to keep the breed true .. sadly, sometimes the authority of the breed standard has been distorted.
But concerning working dogs. Who nowadays needs to dig foxes or badgers? nobody. Its just done by … hang on. Thats best kept for another thread.

But borders are great dogs. For all the right reasons also.

AA trying to prove point but changing his initial point or he’s forgotten what he was on about he’s wrapped so much up in his own bull crap.

Mooman well said.

Great looking dog Woffle.

Cheers. He’s a complete loon – never thought I’d be a ‘dog’ person but I’m a complete convert now. Going back to the OP – don’t know enough specifics about BT’s but getting the hound was the best thing I’ve done in a long time…

(Oh, and if the shedding thing bothers you – get a Bedlington – no shedding at all and he’s hypo-allergenic which pleased my wife no end)

There’s a good few working Beds on the forum. There’s a local chap who’s got a fair few lurchers, wolf-hounds and jack russells and he says the Bedlington’s are bred into greys or whippets for the heart and tenacity. A good one is meant to be an excellent all-rounder as they’re happy to go to earth but have the legs for rabbiting etc.

You also need to take that site with a pinch of salt though eh lol

The bedlington has a very long history. Lots of people used them for lots of various reasons. The main mix you generally hear about is for the lurcher.
That said ..
I hear the new bestest .. very bestest .. running dog is the whippetXjackrussel … or is it still the bull-greyhound lol

As said though Woffle. Thats a lovely looking pup. I wont even guess at the price you had to pay …

That site’s not really my cup of tea though parts make for an interesting read. Given the subject matter there’s not surprisingly a fair few armchair warriors and people pontificating about things they know little about. (sounds familiar 🙂 )

As said though Woffle. Thats a lovely looking pup. I wont even guess at the price you had to pay …

a lot less than you’d imagine! (and his brother is still available I think)

I do, very much like the old breeds.
Two dogs is now my limit though .. the garden is now a garden!

. The KC has merely tried to keep the breed true .. sadly, sometimes the authority of the breed standard has been distorted.

because you cannot judge gameness or ability to work in a show ring. Just look at many scottish deerhounds, I’ve seen lots run and doubt they could even catch a deer!

Drac I know full well what I’m talking about and its clear to me who is talking crap mooman seems to know what he’s on about, you dont. There’s nothing wrong with cross breeds was my point firstly and secondly the Kennel Club have screwed a great many breeds as they concentrate on conformation not health or working ability.

or is it still the bull-greyhound lol

suffer from much the same problem as many of the Patterdale’s you talk about, run by idiots who get them too bashed up too quick.

oh and woffle’s dog looks brilliant, to my understaning Beddies are used in Lurchers for their coat and a bit of fire.

AA your now back on point I see, which I do agree with sort of the KC has asked too much from some breeds but as to ruining them no not really. There are breeders out there that who try to stick to the KC recommendations too much and use ‘dodgy’ ways to do this. That’s those breeders though not the KCs fault.

its the kennel club and its definitions of the breed that create the basic problem though. They set the standards and show owners try to stick to the conformation ideals in preference to all else. The KC are the root cause

Its just too easy/simple to blame the KC … sure they could do more to help. But the root is most definetly with the breeders.

Look at the king charles spaniel and its skull problems, look at the old english bulldog and its many many problems ..

Bad breeders are the ones maintaining and in many cases increasing these problems. If the breeders all had the breeds best interest in mind .. would they still choose to breed from the ones with the smallest skull or the shortest widest legs? or worst disfigured mouths??

its the KC insistance on the purity of the breed that is also at fault, before the KC people had types of dog and could mix in new genes when needed. The KC rules prevent this. Anyway its well of the topic.

Border Terriers, nice looking dogs, never had one myself, good luck with it.

KC is for cross breeds and pure breeds, it also keeps a a check on breeders registered with them to try and makes sure they don’t do close line breeding where the problem comes from. It’s been active for about 140 years now yet it’s only recent years that problems have started occurring, can’t blame the KC for that.

it also keeps a a check on breeders registered with them to try and makes sure they don’t do close line breeding where the problem comes from.

Its not working very well than as the thousands of KC registered Pugs have the genetic diversity equivalent to something like 60 dogs and that vizla that won crufts has sired some huge proportion of all UK vizlas born since.

worth reading?

well Drac I must go and try registering my lurcher with the Kennel Club 😕

Didn’t claim it was perfect but again it’s the breeders not the KC doing that.

http://www.terrierman.com/Calbol.pdf

Population structure and inbreeding from pedigree
analysis of purebred dogs
Federico C. F. Calboli , Jeff Sampson †, Neale Fretwell ‡ and David J. Balding
? Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, Imperial College, St Mary’s Campus,
Norfolk Place, London W2 1PG, UK
† The Kennel Club, Clarges Street, London W1J 8AB, UK
‡ WALTHAM Centre for Pet Nutrition, Freeby Lane, Waltham-on-the-Wolds, LE14

Dog breeds are required to conform to a breed standard, the pursuit of which often
involves intensive inbreeding: the inbreeding effective population size of most breeds
considered here is orders of magnitude smaller than the census size, and exceeds 100
only in the Labrador Retriever. This has adverse consequences in terms of loss of
genetic variability and high prevalence of recessive genetic disorders. These features
make purebred dogs attractive for the study of genetic disorders, but raise concerns
about canine welfare.
Dog registration rules have only been rigidly enforced for about 50 years, prior to that
occasional outcrossing was still possible. Anecdotal evidence suggests that loss of
genetic variation and high levels of inbreeding have adverse consequences for canine
health and fertility. We have found that the loss of genetic diversity is very high, with
many breeds losing over 90% of singleton variants in just six generations.

Dog registration rules have only been rigidly enforced for about 50 years,

90 years after the KC then, so not the KCs fault.

its them that make and enforce the rules is it that hard to grasp?

here’s a picture to help

its them that make and enforce the rules is it that hard to grasp?

It’s the breeders that choose to breed them so close, not the KC.

Anyway BTs rock, mine curled up on my lap for his cuddle.

cause and effect, obviously is harder to grasp for some than I thought.

Molly’s just gone out for a shit. She rocks too.

Wow, in true STW fashion a simple request for some advice turns into an argument. 😯
All I asked for was peoples opinions and experiences of one breed, not about the moral ethics of the KC.

deadlydarcey, again thanks for you help. I’m now in contact with a few local breeders.

To all the BT owners. When you first got them, how long was it before you were comfortable with leaving them on their own?

To all the BT owners. When you first got them, how long was it before you were comfortable with leaving them on their own?

If you cage them to start with, then not too long at all from what I can remember.
Then limit them to the kitchen (or similar) single room when going out.

Kobe, the youngest of the two, & also male FWIW, is a real pain to leave, barks at everything, will chew skirting & stairs if bored & winds the neighbours up to boot, he also chases after dogs (well anything really) barking his head off & scaring owners & the other dogs, my wife hates walking him.
The one I showed in the pic earlier, Braid, has been an absolutely brilliant dog, only trouble is she is a bit prone to illness & wieght gain (show stock) where the little git (working stock) is indestructible 😉

PS, have you looked at the cost of pet insurance? My two cost about £50pm ❗

Cheers.

Kobe, the youngest of the two, & also male FWIW, is a real pain to leave, barks at everything, will chew skirting & stairs if bored & winds the neighbours up to boot

Have you tried Kong toys? Ours keeps Stanley entertained for an age trying to get the treats out. They last well too – he completely destroys soft toys within hours…

We have three Kong’s in varying sizes, but Braid will just collect them all on her bed & growl if he goes near them when food is involved!

Cheers anyway.