they wouldnt jump ship – they would be taken. The best performers will be known by the opposition. It only takes a handful of the best (most profitable) to be poached to have a negative impact, not rafts and rafts of mediocre people – that is what I meant, not a mass exodus.

differnt bankers, different bonuses. “Bankers” isnt just a couple of dozen people in pinstripe suits, its hundreds of thousands of people in the finance sector? where do you draw the line?

At $500,000 apparently.

Im disappointed in the lack of Tags on this thread.

I would at least expect a bit of venomous leftie vitriol.

Ian – I think that’s an excellent idea, put me down for £250k!

I defer entirely to Stoner in these matters.

However, as a tolerably well-performing economic unit in a well-performing team, in a firm which has as a whole seen a large drop in turnover because of its exposure to mergers and acquisitions work, there was absolutely no possibility of my being paid a bonus this year. The reason for this, ostensibly, is that my employer does not have enough money to pay bonuses and wants to make sure it does not go bust.

I can imagine that that calculation might have been different if my firm had been regarded as “too big to fail” and the treasury had all but guaranteed that it would not be allowed to.

I am not 100% sure I understand it as a FACT that we are all screwed if a bank fails in a way that we are not all screwed if any other sort of business fails. I guess it’s right, but I feel the injustice of the fact that I don’t get a bonus (which I have “earned” on some measures) to prevent my employer’s business collapsing while other people who have similarly “earned” their bonuses are being paid them despite the fact that the only reason their employer’s business has not already collapsed is that it has been given a generous slug of “my” money.

😉

I thought you were one of those ambulance chasing lawyers BD? 🙂

If your business is succeeding, making profits to or above targets and all in the garden is good, then great pay bonuses.

If your business almost went to the wall and had to be bailed out by taxpayers money then be thankful you’ve still got a job.

FWIW, the company I work for used to pay bonus every year of between 7.5 and 10.5% . Times were good and profits were plenty. Times are now not so good and profits are below targets. Guess what, we don’t get bonuses. That’s the really real world. Welcome. Make yourself comfortable. Get over it.

Coyote: Fail.

Go back to the begining and read again.

Not fail, just reality.

I don’t know the background to the bail out deal, so maybe someone can enlighten me?

Did the government “buy into” the company?
If so does it have a controlling share?
Does the bank have to pay back the governments share? (with interest?)

I’m actually an RBS customer, but I’ve been out of the country for 4 months so far and haven’t followed the story.

Did the government “buy into” the company?
If so does it have a controlling share?
Does the bank have to pay back the governments share? (with interest?)

They issued a rights issue basically selling loads of new shares, that was underwritten by the government saying they’d buy any that were left. Nobody wanted to buy any of these shares, so the government now owns something like 70% of shares. Since this time it’s been revealed that they had a right dog of a year, losing £28bn, the most any company has ever lost, and the government has been sold a load of junk that they’re hoping someone will be able to pull back together and at some point it will be worth something near what they paid for it.

Joe

Since this time it’s been revealed that they had a right dog of a year, losing £28bn, the most any company has ever lost,

seriously? and no one thought to check this before writing the cheque? I guess maybe that’s what happpens when you’re spending someone elses money? Come to think of it that’s how the bonuses will be paid isn’t it? With someone elses money….. Ours actually.

Something to keep an eye on is “big hole losses”.

Since everyone is expecting the worst news, then there’s no reason not to “dig a big hole and sweep all the crap into it”. All the “losses” mentioned above are actually write downs. That is the difference between the previous book value of the bank’s assets and the current view of the value of those assets. A huge number of these assets have no discernable value. That is not the same as having no value, but putting £0 in the balance sheet is a conservative and pragmatic thing to do. Then, in a few years time when liquidity brings movement to the asset markets again, suddenly these zero value assets are worth something again (nothing like the inflated values previously given, but certainly higher than £0) and woohoo it’#s bonus time again! 🙂

[cough] “Bite me” [/cough]

😉

what are you on about, man? 😀

[cough]better at “cooking” than a celebrity chef[/cough]

Seems too many people had cake and thought they could eat it. Thing is we all get the indigestion.
The banking sector needs to realise that supply and demand works at all levels, if there is no market value for low end jobs then there is also none at the top. The profitable people can be let go as there will be another along by and by just like buses.
I would suggest that there are no profitable people as the whole house of cards appears to have been build on kiln dried sand. I have a debt someone is paying back so it’s an asset, no it’s a liability and to argue otherwise is arrant nonsense. Basic accounting as taught a long time ago and far less flexible than language when it comes to evolution of the process.

My 2 pennorth:

1. The alternative to Capitalism has AFAIK only ever produced human misery on an epic scale, far worse than our current situation. Capitalism isn’t perfect but I do wish people would be a little more grateful for what they have got than complaining about the bit that’s wrong all the time e.g. we don’t get imprisoned or shot for openly disagreeing with the government.

2. You may find that bonuses for some of these individuals were guaranteed and written into their contracts which means the bank has no choice but to pay. In the long term maybe guaranteed bonuses may be scrapped of course but too late to do anything about it now

3. No-one ever held a gun to my head and forced me to spend on my credit card or buy a mortgage. If individuals have debt to an unaffordable level, how can it be some rich guy in the City’s fault and never ever the person who signed the piece of paper applying for it?

No-one ever held a gun to my head and forced me to spend on my credit card or buy a mortgage.

So you only ever complain about something if it’s as a result of someone putting a gun to your head ?

You would never complain about the BBC because no one has ever held a gun to your head and forced you to watch it ?

You would never complain about public transport because no one has ever held a gun to your head and forced you to use it ?

You would never complain about other road users because no one has ever held a gun to your head and forced you to use a bicycle ?

We live in a society where our living standards are based on credit. Individuals are actively encouraged to apply for credit, it is the sensible thing to do, so we are told – whether it’s to provide a home for ourselves and our families, or to acquire a means of transport, or pay for a holiday, or buy xmas presents, etc, etc.

It is a system which I believe to be deeply flawed and unacceptable. However, it is the system which is in place at the moment, and until we change it so that people can maintain their living standards and pay for life’s necessities through reasonable wages, there’s not a huge amount that can be done about it.

.

If individuals have debt to an unaffordable level……

That is not the reason for the “credit crunch” in the UK today. I have heard of no evidence that individuals in the UK defaulting on their debts caused the credit crunch. Indeed it would appear that the most popular solution to the mess which we are in today, is to encourage people to borrow more. Hence the lowest interest rates in history.

I have however heard, that the banks screwed up. And screwed up Big Time.