https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/aug/31/chris-boardman-riding-a-bike-on-uk-roads-feels-too-dangerous-for-me

I agree – I ride either mtb or cross and really only the cross bike on road sections to avoid bad mud in winter. I sold my road bike as it never got used.

It’s not the actual risk, it’s the feeling every time someone comes up behind you fast on a narrow country road and you wonder ‘will they slow, have they bothered to look’ – it’s not relaxing I don;t enjoy rides where I get that feeling too often.

Maybe if I could ride to work I’d do that but I wouldn;t choose to do long road rides on a regular basis.

Having said that – just spent a week in northern France and away from the major roads it was so quiet I’d probably happily ride on those.

Boardman, from the article:

I am constantly doing risk assessments. I’m looking at parked cars, seeing which way wheels are turning, everything that’s going on around me. It’s just exhausting. Whereas if I ride on a track or a trail I don’t have to do that and it’s just more pleasant these days,” he said.

I completely get that and I’m glad I don’t have to cycle in built-up areas with lots of traffic, but it’s disappointing that this will be read and interpreted as a generalisation for road cycling in the UK, since it will undoubtedly be used as lobbying material by those who want cyclists off the road. There’s plenty of quiet country lanes out there where road cycling can be and is relaxing.

[edit] the flip side to all this is that you’re riding on a public highway so *should* be paying attention to everything around you. I bet that if all road users did that, we’d have considerably fewer RTAs.

This. Please let this thread die.

There’s plenty of quiet country lanes out there where road cycling can be and is relaxing.

Yes, this.

The first and last 5 mins or so of my road rides out and back in to town are a marked contrast to the rest of most rides as I pick quiet country lanes.

This. Please let this thread die.

Yeah, shut up whining Boardman, just ‘cos yer mum got killed by a shit driver.

this will be read and interpreted as a generalisation for road cycling in the UK, since it will undoubtedly be used as lobbying material by those who want cyclists off the road.

I don’t think it will.

A distracted lady (her admission) put me over the bonnet at Xmas. Didn’t bother to stop at a junction and left me laying in front of oncoming traffic with her own car stopping inches from my head.

At the time I though “phew” – 8 months later after several grands worth of injections, appointments and an impending op… i am still suffering. My shoulder is properly screwed and my knee not far off.

I still tighten up when I hear cars behind me on country roads, or when people overtake to turn immediately left – and even had one guy overtake and then brake test me on Sunday.

At least on my mtb, off-road, the risk taking is mine and not left to some idiot who’s got no idea how to pass a cycle.

Road biking is definitely “when” not “if” you get flattened

I am constantly doing risk assessments. I’m looking at parked cars, seeing which way wheels are turning, everything that’s going on around me.

shouldn’t all road users be doing this all the time?

Yeah, shut up whining Boardman, just ‘cos yer mum got killed by a shit driver.[/quote]
But we did this thread last week. And the week before. And the week before….

It is his job to talk about this now.

I wish he would ride on the road more; he cheerfully passed me at Llandegla on the climb a few years back and showed me just how slow I actually am.

shouldn’t all road users be doing this all the time?

😆

Thoughtful comments by Boardman as always, well worth reading the article.

Don’t really feel that way tbh, but I’ve been lucky in not having any serious incidents for beards. I know how a bad crash or worse (in CB’s case) really changes your outlook.
Also what you’re used to – I rode across London zone 1 yesterday as a visitor on a rubbish bike and that felt pretty sharp compared to my usual commute.

Canny of Boardman not to be photo’d riding that pygmy mobike.

I completely get that and I’m glad I don’t have to cycle in built-up areas with lots of traffic

It’s not urban areas that are the problem one, it’s suburban and edge of towns with big bussy roads and no alternative routes.

I am constantly doing risk assessments. I’m looking at parked cars, seeing which way wheels are turning, everything that’s going on around me

I took this as being the level of concentration. In a buddy environment you are concentrated a lot. I would say the driving equivalent is what it is like when you are in na complexly unfamiliar city abroad with different road layout and design to what you are accustomed to. It takes a higher skill level and concentration level to cycle in most areas than it does drive.

A distracted lady (her admission) put me over the bonnet at Xmas

Sounds fun…

It’s just exhausting.

I think you’ll find that’s the pedalling.

I’ve been lucky in not having any serious incidents for beards.

wtf…?

🙂

I find cycling far less stressful out towards and on the South Downs, in terms of concern over an RTA, compared to commuting through the urban chaos near Southampton city centre.

Heck, it’s far more enjoyable as soon as I reach Allington Lane or Moorgreen Road, which are both only a few minutes ride from Bitterne!

I’m lucky that my early work start means the main roads are relatively quiet at ~0630, but they are busier than they used to be ~7 years ago. On the way home at ~1400, if I want to head fairly directly home, at least I have options to get me away from the traffic (The Common; Horseshoe-Northam Sustrans boardwalk; Quayside/Chessel etc.)

But I don’t envy those cyclists who feel they have to use the main roads in Southampton, for instance between Bassett Avenue and the A3025, it’s incredibly stressful in relative terms!

Once again, I think Sir Chris is using his influencing voice in a careful, but deliberate way. I hope he gets his planned infrastructure changes carried out in Manchester.

I had some arsehole pass me last night on my regular commute at some outrageous speed, must have been well over a ton on a small country road. He was coming the opposite direction, and cut right across onto my side of the road going round a blind corner. If i’d been 20 metres or so closer he’d have hit me head on. He (driving) would have been fine, I (cycling) would have been dead.

It’s not often I have moments like that, when I think ‘I very nearly just died’, but I can think of several. That’s too many, really.

Even ignoring relatively rare incidents like that, enough people don’t pay attention and do needlessly close overtakes that I certainly don’t think British roads are an inherently safe place to ride bikes.

Southampton is shit for cycling I. Agreed. Cycle routes need to not add 10 min the journey and be wiggle wiggle stop start excessive amounts

the problem with quiet country roads is that this is an illusion, every road goes somewhere and will have at least one local boy racer that drives like a lunatic.

I’ve been commuting by bike for 25+ years. Been hit by cars twice but have had countless near misses, deliberate or otherwise. I think it’s getting busier and more dangerous. Every day there is an ‘incident’. This is only riding in and out of Bolton so I’m bloody glad I don’t live in London. I’m dreading next week when the schools go back and the amount of traffic doubles. I am starting to hate it and it really shouldn’t be like that.

It’s not urban areas that are the problem one, it’s suburban and edge of towns with big bussy roads and no alternative routes.

+1.

it’s far more enjoyable as soon as I reach Allington Lane or Moorgreen Road,

I massivly disaggree – these are two of the worst parts for me. City centre ok, these two roads (no real alternatives) pretty dicey, once you get to quieter roads (cross the fair oak road) it’s much better. Could well be timing – I often cycle out of town at rush hour – although it’s the same on sunday mornings.

Too many people are ignorant or in a rush. Contrast with the netherlands – where there isn’t a cycle facility cars will happily sit behind you for a few minutes waiting to safely pass if needs be. Here someone will rush by you only to sit in the next queue. 🙄

Southampton is shit for cycling

compared to what? it’s not too bad.

My route from bursledon to the uni is pretty nice. Country park to netley, off road routes to ithcen bridge. off road past st mary’s. boardwalk up the river.

council need to actually action the 10 year plan and bring in the arterial cycle routes they were planning. Difficult when budgets just seem to be slashed and slashed again.

@thomthumb It probably is timing on Allington and Moorgreen, I don’t recall having anything close to a scary moment on either this year when I started doing recreational cycling again for the first time in years, but I must confess that my preconception was that both would be rat-runs for cars between Mansbridge and Eastleigh.

I use both a fair bit for my South Downs rides, but then I typically either head off before 0700, or between ~1300 and 1500, Weds-Fri or Sunday. The odd time I’ve used them after ~1830 has been fine too.

Potential traffic is one of the biggest factors that stops me from going out cycling at certain times of the day. Out of choice, I won’t normally start a ride ~0800-0930 or ~1600-1830 (possibly even a fraction early on Fridays).

And while Allington/Moorgreen don’t normally compare to the tranquillity of riding Sailor’s Lane cat4 for example, they are are a world away from riding through say Six Dials junction to Jurys Inn roundabout (even at ~0645).

I still can’t believe it took me living down here for ~25 years to discover that cycling bliss up in the South Downs, less than ~30mins away! 😳 😆

I wonder whether Boardman is beginning to move from communicating his well informed and considered opinions into the realms of political and engineered statements designed to get a reaction to meet his or other agendas. He’s going from contributing to debates to having to steer them in a particular direction.

I disagree with boardman on this but I haven’t had a relative killed while cycling. I can sympathise with his view being a little skewed and under the circumstances think he’s doing a pretty good job overall. However it is reasonable to question whether he’s the right person for the job.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/15370146.MP____25million_for_cycle_project_should_have_gone_on_tower_block_safety/

Lot of wonga to improve Southampton for cyclists, which definitely needs doing, but how it is used is the crucial bit!

I’m bloody glad I don’t live in London

It’s a strange automatic reaction that many people have about cycling in London. Inner London (zone 3 and in) cycling is better in London than almost any small, medium or large town else where in UK I have ridden Oxford is comparable and better in some way. Tbh small towns and cities can be the worst.

Outer London varied and is like most other UK towns and cities.

agree with him totally.
but in a country where the car is king, we are never going to get any serious changes.
the mentality of the majority of the pigheaded british person is, ‘I go to work and work hard to pay for my car, I will use it no matter how long my commute takes, or the cost on the environment’.

we are a lazy nation, and this wont ever change.

There’s plenty of quiet country lanes out there where road cycling can be and is relaxing.

My experience is the exact opposite of this – I prefer the cut and thrust of the city centre environment – there’s more going on but the speed differentials are lower (i.e. you can keep up, or just about keep up with motorised traffic a lot of the time). Yes, you have to keep your wits about you and do what CB describes, second guessing every motorist, looking where their wheels are pointing, but in a way that’s sort of enjoyable as it’s more occupying, as opposed to the hypnotic rhythms of the open road – almost the same reasons I prefer mountain biking to road cycling generally, it’s a more fully engaged activity.

Anyway, country lanes scare me – the higher speeds, the motorists not expecting to encounter anyone round the blind bends with the high walls and hedges. Much worse in my head.

The Brick – I agree to some extent, but the sheer volume of traffic and the aggressive nature of it makes it daunting. What is good is that traffic expects cyclists and therefore looks for them, which isn’t necessarily the case in other towns and cities. I’ve noticed when I drive that I am automatically less observant of cyclists when out of London and need to remember that I should be more so.
My Zone 1-3 commute is 95% 20mph which is great.

I think those cyclists who think Chris Boardman is being OTT in his comments about the levels of concentration required for cycling on some UK roads being exhausting, are the ones with a skewed perspective.

I suspect that those cyclists fall into two groups: those who are much worse/less safe cyclists and just don’t know it (they think they are good/safe, but are simply not as aware of what is happening around them and make worse decisions without realising it), and those who are regular cycle commuters on such roads for whom the high levels of concentration necessary etc. are something to which they have simply become acclimatised and so they do not find them exhausting. You could regard this acclimatisation as a training effect, i.e. training to improve mental stamina, but you could also regard it as a case of ‘boiled frog syndrome’: becoming gradually inured to a dangerous and unpleasant environment.

Chris Boardman probably finds the riding on busy roads unpleasant because he is not as acclimatised to it as regular cyclists. But it’s the regular commuting cyclists whose perspective is skewed: we need ordinary people to be able to get on a bike and ride without experiencing what Chris Boardman describes, and maybe that is one reason why he may prove to be a very good choice for his new role.

For all our sakes, I hope he gets the backing and resources that he will need.

When I used to commute by motorcycle I always thought London was pretty safe as car drivers were more used to seeing other motorbikes. I guess the same is true of bicycles.

Anyway, I’ll post my usual comment again; we rent out bikes to lots of foreign customers, including Dutch, French, Spanish and Belgians. We also provide bike and passenger transport for those with their own bikes. Almost without exception the customers tell us how considerate and patient the drivers in the Highlands and Islands are.

I disagree with boardman on this but I haven’t had a relative killed while cycling. I can sympathise with his view being a little skewed and under the circumstances think he’s doing a pretty good job overall. However it is reasonable to question whether he’s the right person for the job.

You can’t really disagree with him, he’s saying how he feels. You can say that you feel different, but you can’t disagree with him explaining how he feels. He never said the roads are too dangerous, he says there’s a disconnect between perceived and actual safety, and the difference in the way we treat vehicles of different types.

I also think as above your perspective can become skewed by your own familiarity (or lack of), and is VERY dependant on where you ride. Some places are much worse than others, and the difference between those places can be as little as a few miles. There are some roads near me I hate riding on, the drivers can be impatient arses with no regard for the safety of others (on bikes or in cars!), but move a half mile or so sideways into the lanes or smaller roads and it’s lovely, quiet, and the drivers are considerate, and the stupid things is a lot of the time it’s the same drivers just in a different environment. Same thing with time of day, it can massively change how people behave, rush hour and lunch times obviously being the worst…

I think he is exactly the right person for the job, not only is he thoughtful* and articulate, but he does have personal experience, both tragically and as an experienced cyclist. If he is saying he doesn’t feel safe then how do you think inexperienced Mrs Jo Public feels about getting on a bike?

* eg: when he said “The roads are statistically safe, but it doesn’t look it and it doesn’t feel it”, that’s not an attention grabbing soundbite, that’s a decent clarified comment that acknowledges the difference between actual statistical safety, and the emotional experience of trying to ride for transport or leisure on our roads.

See also most of his other comments in the article…always balanced, always thoughtful, even if you hold differing opinions on some points I’d want someone like that having influence rather than a rabid knee-jerker or someone who doesn’t spend the time trying to understand an think things through.

Roads never have been, aren’t and never will be designed to be fun or nice.

And where in the highcode does it say …. “Go out, Enjoy yourselves”

That’s basically why drivers have the needle with us.

We have crashed (excuse the pun) a public place with a private game…. We are enjoying the road … they are enduring it.

Remember your mum told you not to play in the road ….. be careful out there kids 🙂

Roads never have been, aren’t and never will be designed to be fun or nice.

My car insurance is described as “social, domestic & pleasure”.

My car insurance is described as “social, domestic & pleasure”.

I’d interpret that as meaning going somewhere to do something pleasurable. I certainly don’t find driving itself particularly pleasurable, it’s just something I have to do.

I’d interpret that as meaning going somewhere to do something pleasurable. I certainly don’t find driving itself particularly pleasurable, it’s just something I have to do.

I’d describe that as “social”. I don’t find driving pleasurable either, but some people do go for a drive for its own sake.

But we did this thread last week. And the week before. And the week before….

Yup, and I think the conclusion usually is,it really depends where you live and at what time you want to cycle.So this means that there is a lot more work to be done in the bad areas,building in good infrastructures and educating people(from an early age)so that it’s less of an us and them battle. Just think how many new parents want their kids to ride a bike(most),then how many of them can’t see the connection as they buzz past you on the road or get all wound up by someone holding them up for a few minutesseconds.

but in a country where the car is king, we are never going to get any serious changes.

Kings will fall and you more than anyone know how commuting by bike can change your life.
When I talk to people at work about the benefits of commuting by bike, it’s like I have let them in to a secret.
Now for some of them it’s never going to happen as they have too many restrictions with family commitments and work timetables, but with more companies adopting flexible hours there is hope for the future.

Drivers have the needle because they’re dicks (the ones who have a problem that is, they’re a small minority). The reason cyclists are on the road has nothing to do with it, their thinking doesn’t extend that far.

Meanwhile, even apart from those people who are just out for a drive “for fun”, an awful lot of the journeys on the road are people going out to do “fun” things, and no more essential than going for a bike ride.