Dazzzliongboy - its what always happens with new roads.
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Bloody Trams - Edinburgh Content - Now only going to Haymarket.
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Posted 8 months ago #
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Totally different mentality in other EU states
+1 - why is everything new like this "a bad thing".
Back to horses and carts all round?
Posted 8 months ago # -
its what always happens with new roads.
But is the new bridge generating the extra traffic or some other factor?
Could be, among other things, crap public transport links; rising cost of public transport; lower house prices in Fife - you name it.
I'm not sure the argument of "it always happens" is much of an argument tbh. Maybe the traffic will rise, but could be due to a hundred reasons.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Peterfile - are you claiming that the new bridge will be cheaper than repairing the old one?
Of course it would cause issues to repair the existing one - but that is the sensible way to go. Plan for it, get a increaed park and ride over the rail bridge, improve the route to kincardine etc etc
As for increased congestion - where do you think the extra traffic wil go? All new road projects increase traffic. there is nowhere for this increased traffic to go at rush hour - the roads into Edinburgh are full, the Edinburgh bypass is full, the M8 is full.
Posted 8 months ago # -
I think the reason public building projects are treated with such disdain in this country is to do with the total arse that seems to be made in realising them. The trams and parliment are just two examples and they're both in Edinburgh.
Whereas that bridge in France I can never remember the name of came in early and under budget.
Is it just other countries set budgets and time scales at more realistic levels that allow for some contingency or do contractors in this country under quote in order to get contracts or are contracts better written elsewhere? - that's a genuine question as I don't understand how we seem to be consistently poor at seeing through large capital projects.
Posted 8 months ago # -
where do you think the extra traffic wil go
sorry I'm still not with you here - what extra traffic?
Posted 8 months ago # -
lower house prices in Fife - you name it.
This has to be a factor, I know quite a few people (obviously not a statistically relevant survey) that either have or are planning to move to Fife because you get a hell of a lot more for your money.
Look at the size of Duloch Pk now comparedto a couple of years ago!
Posted 8 months ago # -
Peterfile - are you claiming that the new bridge will be cheaper than repairing the old one?
Again it's not as simple as that. There is no way to predict the remaining life cycle repairs and additional repairs required to the existing bridge.
Even if it was quantifiable in a basic cost of repair v new bridge construction basis, you have to look at the political issues. Scottish Ministers have an obligation to ensure continued provision of infrastructure, they have dedicated budget.
If FRC had never been proposed, all we would have is people from Edinburgh whinging about how the repair works to the existing bridge were causing them to be 30 mins late for work every day and it was a stupid idea to repair such an old bridge with an unknow lifespan.
Of course it would cause issues to repair the existing one - but that is the sensible way to go. Plan for it, get a increaed park and ride over the rail bridge, improve the route to kincardine etc etc
You wouldn't believe the amount of work that was carried out and various models mooted, every conceivable option was considered, it took years. Of course there are other options, but a decision had to be made, and on the basis of the criteria SM were working to (i.e. cost and continued provision of road access etc), FRC was the one that came out top.
As for increased congestion - where do you think the extra traffic wil go? All new road projects increase traffic. there is nowhere for this increased traffic to go at rush hour - the roads into Edinburgh are full, the Edinburgh bypass is full, the M8 is full.
Again, it's all be modelled and remodelled and then remodelled again. Whilst generated journey predictions are never 100% accurate, bridge projects are hardly unique, so the maths behind it is pretty sound. It will be fine, trust me
Posted 8 months ago # -
dazzlingboy - the extra traffic that will be generated - this happens with road infrastructure projects such as this. Allways.
The mechanism at work behind induced traffic is elegantly explained by an aphorism gaining popularity among traffic engineers: "Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt." Increased traffic capacity makes longer commutes less burdensome, and as a result, people are willing to live farther and farther from their workplace. As increasing numbers of people make similar decisions, the long-distance commute grows as crowded as the inner city, commuters clamor for additional lanes, and the cycle repeats itself. This problem is compounded by the hierarchical organization of the new roadways, which concentrate through traffic on as few streets as possible.
http://stopthepave.org/why-building-roads-doesnt-ease-congestion
Posted 8 months ago # -
Peterfile =- waht alternative universe do you live in?
Its a vanity project pure and simple.
It will cause massive congestion south of the bridge and probably north as well.
Every infrastructure project of this sort always ends up in increased congestion
Posted 8 months ago # -
Is it just other countries set budgets and time scales at more realistic levels that allow for some contingency or do contractors in this country under quote in order to get contracts or are contracts better written elsewhere? - that's a genuine question as I don't understand how we seem to be consistently poor at seeing through large capital projects.
This is a VERY interesting question and one which is actually being discussed at the moment across the EU.
IMO, the political issues faced on major PPP projects in this country and high costs associated with tenderering result in poor value for money.
A rework of the way contracts are negotiated and awarded (e.g the procurement process)is required.
Most competitions are run under the competitive dialogue process at the moment, which is, quite frankly, utterly inefficient and expensive.
Some form of lighter weight negotiated procedure would be FAR more useful and cost effective, leading to lower bid costs and a contract which is generally more fit for purpose.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Induced demand. You can't build your way out of congestion.
PS STW synchronicity:
Peterfile =- waht alternative universe do you live in?
This is a VERY interesting question and one which is actually being discussed at the moment across the EU.
Posted 8 months ago # -
its what always happens with new roads.
tj, i doff my cap - the quality of your shite just gets better and better
Posted 8 months ago # -
Bigbutslimmer bloke - but it does. New roads = increased congestion almost allways - see M25 for the best example but all other new road projects I know of increased congestion.
Posted 8 months ago # -
but it does.
yes, and i never thought it possible. it is with baited breath that i await your next verbal bowel dump. if it was the real thing, i'm sure there would be a call to the coastguard to alert shipping
Posted 8 months ago # -
You can ignore facts if you want. Even the UK government acknowledges this
Posted 8 months ago # -
But the trams are going to cross the new bridge arn't they...?
Posted 8 months ago # -
no no no, there will be a bus interchange where you get a bus to the bridge, then you will climb the towers to use the huge zip line which will transport goods and services in relative safety to the other side.
because we don't need a bridge to cross the forth.
apparently.
says tj who must be agreed with
unless you're in hr then expect a grovelling apologyPosted 8 months ago # -
actually that sounds pretty good, i might be all for that
I see it was trialled on the Clyde
Posted 8 months ago # -
BigButSlimmerBloke
do you ever bother to read what people write of just make snidey little attacks?
I want the existing bridge repaired at a cost of 100 million not a new bridge for 20 times that sum
Posted 8 months ago # -
Given the bridge engineers don't know whether the bridge can be repaired yet, does it really matter what you want?
Unless of course you know more than they do, which you probably think you do.Anyway, tj having little hissy fit, job done so i'm off on holiday
sayonara dudes
Posted 8 months ago # -
Oh the bridge engineers know it can be repaired. the 100 million or so cost is the cost of repairing it even if the dehumidification does not work
Posted 8 months ago # -
Seen a bit about it on't news earlier. Seems a lot of Edinbuggers aren't happy. The tram tracks jolly well have not yet bin used, but already are in need or repair.
Youse lot can't even sort out something like this, yet some of you want independence?
You'll just spunk all the and gas revenue on other daft grossly overpriced vanity projects, like this tram project, or big fancy bridges and other crap.
If you ask me, we should dissolve the Scottish Parliament (what a waste of money that was) and just turn Scotland into what it should be; a county of England and maybe a penal colony. Actually that might help steer Britain back in the right direction; surely the threat of being sent to Scotland (the new Coventry?) would be sufficient to dissuade would-be criminals...
'You have bin found guilty and are sentenced to death, or a year in Scotland with TJ and Druidh and Cynic Al and them'
Ooh, blimey, death please!
Posted 8 months ago # -
Elf- trollin!
Posted 8 months ago # -
Another example of the Vanity Bridge Concept, Ladies and Gents I give you the Humber Bridge. The longest single span (in its time) linking no-where to no-where else associated with a boundary change for political reasons.
It cant pay its own debt either.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Sorry if this has been done before.
YouTube nugget re the trams originally posted 2 years ago they must have had a crystal ball
Posted 8 months ago # -
Couldn't they just resurrect the old name for the national monument, 'Scotlands Disgrace' instead of creating a new Disgrace for the city?
Posted 8 months ago #
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