Just as an aside to all this,

A percentage of people are asshats. This is irrespective of whether or not they're in a car, on a motorbike, on a cycle, on a horse, or on foot. Making rash generalisations along the lines of "all (demographic) are idiots" is rather short-sighted.

(IMHO, etc etc)

95% of TJ's statistics are made up?

MF – your friend was clearly riding so badly…………..

You clearly have no idea at all. You praise your friends riding when clearly they are "failing to make normal progress" – indeed riding bikes like driving cars is dangerous.

If there was room for the other bike to overtake them and then pull; into traffic your pals clearly were riding badly by being too hesitant

That is a classic example of bad riding begetting bad riding. Your pals were so slow and hesitant that someone else got frustrated

You on the other hand merely are clueless

Well here goes … I'm a motorcyclist (I used to think of myself as a biker, but there's a difference), and guess what? I sometimes ride like a cock. Can anybody that drives a car or rides a motorbike describe themselves as perfect? If I posted on here everytime some moron in a BMW decided to cut me up, or some myopic twunt decided to pull out as they 'didnt see me', I'd never be off the sodding forum. Oh and TJ, nice to see you back 😉

The Southern Yeti – Member

95% of TJ's statistics are made up?

100% unless I quote a source 🙂

outrageous ! (the headshaking, that is …)

should have done him on the inside*

where is this quiet bit of M4 of which you speak ?

but seriously, shaking head – sad, getting annoyed about it – childish

G disclaimer – *I would never do such a thing

If everyone stayed in the outside lane because of a lorry on the horizon they want to overtake then the UK would soon grind to a standstill

How am I making things grind to a standstill? There was lots of room on the road for everyone to get by, as described above.

And really, the lane changing thing is annoying but hardly unusual. The thing that really wound me up was him telling me I was stupid when I was being very observant and thoughtful – more than most of the drivers today.

I don't see the point in moving left then back right again when the road's empty

To be fair, neither do I. I might have done the same in your position. But if I'd have got the reaction you did from the motorcyclist, I'd have just shrugged and forgotten about it. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other in some ways.
You had room to pull in. You didn't. Someone disagrees with it. You come over all superior and shouty….. 8)

Haha.

Oh and TJ, nice to see you back

Just in time for a certain announcement tomorrow….

PP see my edit above. The smug attitude is what wound me up.

yeti – explain yourself sir!

Just for a bit of perspective, before someone calls someone elses' mum something nasty:

I would imagine that the motorcyclist in question was also a car driver.
I imagine he's just as big a tool behind the wheel of his car as he is behind the bars of his bike.

It's the individual at fault, rather than the mode of transport.
He'd probably be a sanctimonious git on a skateboard as well.

My initial post was intended as a playfull fart in the lift of life. I'll amend it to avoid any confusion:

Peoples behaviour may change, dependant on the activity being undertaken.

The Southern Yeti – Member

Haha.

"Oh and TJ, nice to see you back "

Just in time for a certain announcement tomorrow….

Que?

Molgrips, it's just a difference of opinion mate, nowt more. No harm done. Just let it roll off you and carry on your day.

FWIW, form the MCists point of view, it's probably exasperation more than smugness

Surely you'll be on here dissecting the budget all day?

I failed my bike test the other week for catching up with someone and not getting past them. If you sit behind a car moving slower than your nececeraly expect on a motorbike the odds are the car behind you will either

a)drive with about 6" of clearance to your rear wheel becasue some smug git told him cars have better brakes and/or hes a penis.

b) Not see you because they're looking at the car and completely flatten you.

So yes motorcycists do think differently to car drivers, you're told not to think about the right and wrongs of a situation, just to make sure your not the one coming off worst. If you were sat in the middle lane longer than neccecary then I'd be pissed off with you in my car let alone on a motorbike where its actualy dangerous as opposed to inconvenient.

MF – your friend was clearly riding so badly…………..

You clearly have no idea at all. You praise your friends riding when clearly they are "failing to make normal progress" – indeed riding bikes like driving cars is dangerous.

If there was room for the other bike to overtake them and then pull; into traffic your pals clearly were riding badly by being too hesitant

That is a classic example of bad riding begetting bad riding. Your pals were so slow and hesitant that someone else got frustrated

Even if he was riding in a hesitant manner (which, knowing my friend, he will not have been doing – he is a safe driver and rider and I can say with almost complete certainty that he will have made the correct and safe decision), would it ever be safe to overtake someone at a junction? What would happen if my friend hadn't seen the other rider's actions and pulled out as he was being illegally passed? You are defending somethign utterly, 100%, indefensible.

You on the other hand merely are clueless

How old are you? 🙄

haha thats nothing my mate in an audi the other day over took a lorry who then took a vendetta out against him and chased him down to a lay-by when he proceeded to get out with a crow bar and walk towards him, trying to open his car door so my mate rang the police and floored it… turns out about 5 serious charges against the guy and he's going downnnnnn haha
middle lane smiddle lane!

How old am I – 49.

You friend in that situation was clearly being far too hesitant – hence the actions of the other biker ( who I was not defending at all if you read my post)

if your friend was not being far too hesitant then there would not have been room for the other biker to do what he did.

One of the things car drivers don't understand ( like you and your friend) is that motorcycles can safely pull out into much smaller gaps in the traffic

By failing to understand why your friend was riding so badly you show your ignorance. Your friend would have failed his driving test for failing to pull out into a suitable sized gap.

I personally believe in minimising lane changes when there's no disadvantage in doing so. If there are people behind me I do get over all the time

What a shame the Highway code does not share your view of how to drive on a Motorway. Shame also you did not get over for this motorbike in the small 1/4 mile gap you could have got your car into 🙄
You use the lane to overtake – you are in it whilst you overtake you do not leave it to just let people overtake you – clearly you are a middle lane hogger. It is annoying to move all the way across 3 lanes and then back again because the t1t in the middle lane interprets the highway code like you do and just hogs a lane.

The thing that really wound me up was him telling me I was stupid when I was being very observant and thoughtful

which is to say you drive like an observant ****t but still like a twa@t which I think is probably worse

I'll tell you what smugness on a motorbike is –

Having a Porsche Boxter S, roof down, wife in the passenger seat, try and overtake you coming round a roundabout, hearing him wind the engine up on the exit, and then comprehensively blowing him into the weeds with a quick flick of the wrist…..

Or passing a long line of traffic at 70-ish in the outside lane of a dual carrigeway, having some berk in a big car come rushing right up behind you, acting big and trying to look hard, ignoring him, finishing your overtake by the book, indicate, pull in… watch… wait… For him to accelerate and, again, make him look silly just before he draws level…

That, my friend, is smugness….. 8) 😉

That, my friend, is smugness

I think there are a few other words to describe it too. 🙄

which is to say you drive like an observant ****t but still like a twa@t which I think is probably worse

I do not drive like a ****. I did nothing twatty, no-one was held up or inconvenienced. If you'd been in the car with me all morning you would see that I am most definitely NOT a middle lane hogger. Easy with the judgements when you don't know stuff, please.

Specifically, what would be the point of pulling back in between two lorries on a clear road?

PP – bikes faster than cars. Is this news or something?

if your friend was not being far too hesitant then there would not have been room for the other biker to do what he did.

It wasn't hesitancy – he was waiting for traffic to pass. The other rider pushed past him and straight into the flow of traffic. There is a marked difference between hesitancy and pushing past other road users and into oncoming traffic.

PP – bikes faster than cars. Is this news or something?

To some, yes it is. 8)

EDIT
And it's so, soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo satisfying……

MF – you miss the point. A motorcycle can safely go into a much smaller gap – safely.

because neither you nor your mate can ride a bike properly you don't understand this.

Your mate clearly was riding his bike looking for car sized spaces – this is an automatic fail on a bike test. "failing to make normal progress"

Both bikes in the wrong of course – but your friend by his poor riding caused frustration in another road user.

It comes down to one simple fact. You do not understand the difference between riding a bike and driving a car.

To some, yes it is.

And why would anyone care if their bike is faster than someone else's car?

Can't be bothered reading this whole thread right now but I have received the slow, sarky headshake treatment on one occasion. I have no idea what it was about but it did totally enrage me… maybe one of you bikey types can enlighten me?…

The only "wrong" thing I can think of is that I had observed traffic ahead and was gradually slowing down (I was in the left hand lane, out of three), using engine braking down through a couple of gears rather than hitting the brakes… could that annoy a biker coming up behind? He had ample room to overtake and should have also been aware of the upcoming traffic. Pulled up alongside me and gave me the stink-eye and the headshake. Total dobber. If I'd had a chance to remonstrate, I would've.

FWIW Regarding the OP – if I was in his shoes, I would've stayed in the middle lane to pass the 2nd truck too, assuming there was space for someone else to pass on the outside if they were so inclined.

There aint half some bollocks being spouted on this thread.

Lucky Jim – your brake lights dont come on when you engine brake. For some people it is difficult to see if someone is slowing down. People with good eyesight in only one eye are allowed to drive and they have this difficulty.

And why would anyone care if their bike is faster than someone else's car?

Try it. You'll see.

There aint half some bollocks being spouted on this thread.

Welcome to the internet! 😀

Lucky Jim – some people don't like it when you slow down significantly under engine braking, because your brake lights don't come on.. so you're not notifying people of your intentions very well.

Try it. You'll see.

Should we care?

MF – you miss the point. A motorcycle can safely go into a much smaller gap – safely.

because neither you nor your mate can ride a bike properly you don't understand this.

Your mate clearly was riding his bike looking for car sized spaces – this is an automatic fail on a bike test. "failing to make normal progress"

Both bikes in the wrong of course – but your friend by his poor riding caused frustration in another road user.

It comes down to one simple fact. You do not understand the difference between riding a bike and driving a car.
Nice to see you accept the other rider was in the wrong – a small victory for common sense.

But my friend has been riding for 26 years and was (as I have already said) will have been riding in a safe manner for the condtions. Of course I can only relay what I was told, but my understanding of the event was that the other rider came up at speed and, without stopping, went straight into the flow of traffic. I know that a bike (or powerful car) can make manoeuvres other road users cannot due to their power, but how was this other rider to know when my friend was going to pull out? It was a dangerous move and it cannot be condoned.

Perhaps my friend had been waiting behind another vehicle that had subsequently pulled into a gap in traffic so had to wait for a slightly larger gap than someone already carrying speed coming to the Give Way.

You know nothing of the event. I, at least, know what sort of driver and rider my friend is and am able to trust his judgement that the other party was riding in a dangerous manner.

As I said up there^^^^ – overtaking at a junction is dangerous and indefensible.

overtaking at a junction is dangerous and indefensible.

Yep, and against the highway code too.

Cheers Obi / Molgrips… that's what I thought re: brakelights.

Given the road conditions at the time I think the reaction was totally unjustified. Daytime, good weather, 50mph zone, quiet traffic, I was in the slow-lane approaching a small queue before a road toll. I am pretty sensitive to motorbikes/cyclists (as we all should be I hope)… but if someone is gaining hard it is surely 100% their responsibility to keep an eye on safe stopping/evasion distance to the vehicle in front, no matter how many wheels they happen to have. Bang out of order.

Should we care?

Only one way to find out….. 🙂

I do agree that if you are driving like a boy racer you have to take extra responsibility. If you are a motorcyclist say and you are flying down the gap between two lanes, you can't really complain when someone a) wants to change lane or b) isn't pulled over enough. You're the one taking advantage, so you have to work around other people. Likewise if you want to speed you can't complain when you come up behind someone doing 70mph.

Whtas funny with all this is the obvious difference in the standards of the motorbike test and car test. The bike test is much harder. For example the just using engine braking thing being wrong was told to me when learning to ride a bike. It takes no time or effort in either a car or on a bike to show the brake lights when engine braking.

As I said up there^^^^ – overtaking at a junction is dangerous and indefensible.

No ones defending it just someone trying to make you see why it might happen. Motorbike riders are trained to ride in a manner that reduces the chances of others acting stupidly around them, car drivers dont get this training.

Doesnt stop any road user of any type being an idiot though.

And TJ – still waiting to see any other 'evidence' of of my no idea about riding bikes.

Perhaps you refer to the time I posted about the rider who overtook me going up a hill with a blind summit and sharp left bend whilst doing a wheelie on hatchmarkings then having to drop it and swerve in right in front of me as a car headed around the bend (that one made my wife scream out loud it was so close).

Or the time (incidentally about a mile further up the same road on another day) where a motorcyclist overtook a long line of traffic for around 800 meters going into a blind dip with unbroken white lines in the centre, culminating in him being in the middle of the road heading towards a car in the central island waiting to turn right. Such was his speed, he couldn't slow so actually overtook him too.

No ones defending it just someone trying to make you see why it might happen. Motorbike riders are trained to ride in a manner that reduces the chances of others acting stupidly around them, car drivers dont get this training.

My friend was on a bike too though!