Bitcoin prices seem to have gone ballistic over the last 24hrs – imminent crash, or just a blip? I guess that’s the question.

I find this quite disturbing

Its problematic.
The big miners are based in just a handful of locations (mostly in China but think one in USA) where there is cheap power. Think is most hydroelectric but its certainly is a problem long term.

Bitcoin prices seem to have gone ballistic over the last 24hrs – imminent crash, or just a blip? I guess that’s the question.

While there’s demand it will just keep increasing.

A correction could be overdue but who knows.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/dec/07/bitcoin-64m-cryptocurrency-stolen-hack-attack-marketplace-nicehash-passwords

It’s the exchanges & wallets, not bitcoin that I don’t trust…

@Stevet1 I don’t think anyone knows. I lumped some speculative money in 5 weeks ago, and have made a 75% return. Bitcoin and Litecoin were tracking to same patterns, but the frenzy in Bitcoin specifically is obvious this week. Up 30% today!

The growth curve is exponential, so it could just be starting, or it might go pop in a minute.

How do you make money from this. its all well and good having numbers in accounts but with out a way to spend it whats the point?

30% today…….
If i’d had the guts to invest my new bike fund a few months back when they were ~£1k and cashed out today i’d now be mortgage free with new bike fund still intact.

Oh well……..

tagnut69 – Member
How do you make money from this. its all well and good having numbers in accounts but with out a way to spend it whats the point?

You can’t spend shares in Apple or whatever either. You sell them for GBP, or if you’re using coinbase, EUR.

You can’t spend shares in Apple or whatever either. You sell them for GBP, or if you’re using coinbase, EUR.

Don’t kid yourself the two are equivalent.

Apple shares are a lot more liquid and stable, they’re also not regularly stolen from exchanges with no way to recover them. The market place, they trade in, is also highly regulated, basically very low risk compared to bitcoin.

footflaps – Member
Don’t kid yourself the two are equivalent.

Apple shares are a lot more liquid and stable, they’re also not regularly stolen from exchanges with no way to recover them…

POSTED 55 SECONDS AGO # REPORT-POST

I didn’t say or (mean to) imply that they were.

All it will take is for someone whose holding a significant number of BTC to dump them &…..

I’d be tempted to if I were in that position.

As a market goes this is red hot!

I’d stay away now quite frankly, this kind of growth is unsustainable & a little suspicious IMHO. If something looks too good to be true…….

As a market goes this is red hot!

It went well beyond that some time ago….

Millions of greater fools jumping on the bandwagon hoping to make their fortune.

You’d think bitcoin was some sort of spring-blooming perennial herbaceous bulbiferous geophytes.

Never been interested in this bitcoin stuff but now it’s got my attention. What’s going on then? Are they really concerned about a modern version of tulipmania, or are they more bothered about the fact they don’t control it and it’s a potential threat to established state-run currencies?

I’d stay away now quite frankly, this kind of growth is unsustainable & a little suspicious IMHO. If something looks too good to be true…….

This has been said for a long time.

It’s worth the ride if you can afford to lose your capital.

Biggest issue is trying to sell when it’s risen so much. System becomes chaotic.

I have sold to cash pounds notes a few times though.

are they more bothered about the fact they don’t control it and it’s a potential threat to established state-run currencies?

This is part of it, and part of its appeal.

All it will take is for someone whose holding a significant number of BTC to dump them &…..

And currently they will get bought up.

Can I ask what is probably a dumb question please? 😀

Is the reason mining is so hardware intensive simply because if mining were “easy” then by implication the market would be flooded with bitcoins and devaluing them entirely?

A bit like if massive, massive gold reserves were suddenly found the price of gold would tumble?

Am I being too literal in my interpretation?

I’m just curious as to why the masses of processing power is needed and that’s the only reason I can think of?

Thanks guys!

Prices have gone mental today. Started off at under £11k (which is still a significant rise from the £7800 I bought at 6 days ago), an hour ago they went through £14,500, back down to £11,500 now.

Madness!

Is the reason mining is so hardware intensive simply because if mining were “easy” then by implication the market would be flooded with bitcoins and devaluing them entirely?

Yes, it’s to regulate the supply with the further twist that it gets progressively even harder as more and more coins are mined.

It is madness.

Btw if you want to invest in bitcoin or ethereum without the hassle, open a stocks and shares account and invest in xbt trackers. I opened my account with £100, stuck it on xbt.btc and it’s now worth 160 (woo!). I intend to leave it there for 20 years as a marker for what happened to btc.

As a market goes this is red hot!

It is amusing to watch.
Although the best bit is when people use some dubious exchange and watch their money vanish. Either because the owners are crooks or because they were too cool to harden their systems.

What’s going on then? Are they really concerned about a modern version of tulipmania, or are they more bothered about the fact they don’t control it and it’s a potential threat to established state-run currencies?

Speculative bubbles aren’t a good thing, so stopping them would be a start.

Also, the main attraction of Bitcoin and others, is the lack of control i.e. ideal for laundering money / selling drugs / guns / people etc.

Eventually it will end up being regulated unless it completely collapses first.

Although the best bit is when people use some dubious exchange and watch their money vanish. Either because the owners are crooks or because they were too cool to harden their systems.

It’s an inherent flaw in the system though. With no central regulation, all you have to do is hack someone / an exchange and you can take their money and there’s nothing anyone can do about it. Anyone can be hacked, just a matter of how hard it is to do so.

Reminds me of the Tech bubble / crash of 2001. I was working for a tiny loss making start up which was burning through cash like it was going out of fashion and we were valued (and trading on NASDAQ) at over $4bn. Totally insane. Company folded in the crash and all the share holders were wiped out. Although it was was chicken feed compared on Enron etc.

This has been said for a long time.

A 30% rise in value in one day is not what I call sustainable & more to the point, the hallmark of a bubble.

And currently they will get bought up.

The definition of a greater fool right there.

It’s a commodity with no intrinsic value other than that fact that people want some. Apart from a very few outlets BTC is not a handy currency to hold.

At least daffodils look nice plus they come back every year!

You can’t say that much about BTC.

Blockchain, however, is far more interesting. It’s uses could have a far greater benefit if they could be implemented into everyday finance for example.

To add: I was chatting to a friend whose the global asset manager for a major bank & we were talking about BTC.

He said he couldn’t find anyone who was willing to short BTC, which I thought was rather telling.

Still, there will be those who’ll make money & those who lose money on BTC. Though I doubt BTC itself will be game changer some predict it to be.

When it crashes, & im pretty sure it will, what happens next will be interesting..

Blockchain, however, is far more interesting. It’s uses could have a far greater benefit if they could be implemented into everyday finance for example.

Need to figure out a way for it not to be incredibly slow and power hungry.

Need to figure out a way for it not to be incredibly slow and power hungry.

Which is a problem since both of those are byproducts of what make it useful.
That said there are scenarios it could be good for say house sales and similar large but infrequent (relatively speaking) transactions. Getting a pint, not so much.
From looking on some of the tech websites it is good to see “blockchain” is the latest must use term for a start up. Regardless of whether it would add anything in a particular scenario.

elliptic – Member
Is the reason mining is so hardware intensive simply because if mining were “easy” then by implication the market would be flooded with bitcoins and devaluing them entirely?
Yes, it’s to regulate the supply with the further twist that it gets progressively even harder as more and more coins are mined.

Really quite fiendish really, clever.

Just seems a waste of computing power though to create the bottleneck?

Still, interesting stuff!

The Bitcoin Network’s groaning a bit this evening…anything above 10,000 unconfirmed transactions tends to slow things down, even with higher network transaction fees:

Blockchain Info

Regardless of whether it would add anything in a particular scenario.

Cf. “Private blockchain”

Oh, you mean a glorified database? Sure, we’ll spend thousands on oracle, why not spread the love…

^^^^^^^
Difference is you can delete rows from an Oracle table whereas blockchain is an immutable ledger. Some case studies in finance already out there

So how do you sell safely to GBP? Always seems very vague…

So how do you sell safely to GBP? Always seems very vague

I’ve said this quite a lot.

You can sell in blockchain to gbp. I’ve done it several times.

However blockchain is turning into a pain to buy. None of my cards work with it for some reason.

Tulip Mania

People keep relating and linking to Tulip Mania and Greater Fool Theory (housing market) and whilst there is always those ideas at play, it doesn’t actually explain it away just to say everyone is a bit dumb and is clearly a bubble.

The whole situation is without precident and quite clearly has its own set of rules.

And also these things have been said time and time again. Sure it will crash and correct over it’s natural life cycle but it’s not going away.

It is unsecured and unregulated, it’s not an investment its a punt, if you’re happy with that cool.

Since when has anything being secured or regulated made for a safer investment?

Sure it’s not ‘backed’ by anything we are familiar with as a measure of value but as we have seen in the past, security and regulation is only as good as the people and system behind it, who happen to have shown themselves to be a corrupt self serving bunch.

Not invested myself but it seems a lot are more angry that they have not made a quick buck than the fact they actually think it’s a ‘scam’ of sorts – FOMO as the ‘millenials’ call it.

From what I see, I think bitcoin won’t be the future of currency, It may also ‘crash’ in the future but blockchain technology will last and is going to play a huge role going forward, that’s obvious – bitcoin will just bring the worlds attention to it.

Difference is you can delete rows from an Oracle table whereas blockchain is an immutable ledger.

Well apart from when it is reverted.
See the Ethereum DAO incident.

Its messy but it depends on how many people are involved in mining the blockchain.

It is unsecured and unregulated, it’s not an investment its a punt, if you’re happy with that cool.

I am. I think the returns you get certainly on the high street aren’t worth spit.

And I’ve lost plenty on investments of the years. Regulation and all.

It’s a gamble with the odds a bit in your favour.

Like anything new it’s going to have to go through its own evolution. And anything that pisses Jamie Dimon off works for me.

There is nothing that makes people take greater financial risks than the fear of other people making $$$ when they’re not.

I’m cool with missing out on bitcoin. I think…! Might get some exposure to gold for the inevitable rebound though.

People keep relating and linking to Tulip Mania and Greater Fool Theory (housing market) and whilst there is always those ideas at play, it doesn’t actually explain it away just to say everyone is a bit dumb and is clearly a bubble.

It’s called greed. The ONLY reason people are buying is they keep seeing the price go up and think ‘I can get rich on this’.

That explains it 100%.

All the techies, who believe blockchain is the new messiah, were in it years ago when it was worth less than a tulip bulb.

All the recent people who have just converted to the blockchain religion in the last year or so, don’t understand what blockchain is and never will. They just think they can make a fast buck. They’d buy dog shit if it was having the same price rises.

Even if banks start using BlockChain, it won’t be Bitcoin and it won’t increase bitcoins value. Bitcoin can’t scale (already struggling with transaction volume), so it has no long term wide scale future. The underlying technology probably has a future, but that doesn’t add any intrinsic value to Bitcoin (which has an intrinsic value of nothing).

Some of us have seen these tech bubbles before…