Trek 5200 carbon frame, Royce titanium BB, soaked in penetration oil over night, not budging. They keep saying that if it wasn’t a carbon frame they’d heat it up, which makes me think another shop might be a better bet as even if it was metal, they’d destroy the paint that way.

Do they need to man up? Is there a way of cutting the bottom bracket out?

Assuming the BB stays there, would it be fair of me to expect a refund from the seller or not?

they probably included the BB in the sale for the very reason that they couldn’t get it out…

I’d be looking to soak it for longer and getting a second opinion, tbh

you could always use a pillar drill down beside the axle until the bearings are damaged enough to get the axle out and then you can cut the bearing cups into slices to help get them out = probably I’d do this.

which makes me think another shop might be a better bet as even if it was metal, they’d destroy the paint that way.

That would be a normal procedure – repainting a BB shell is a small price to pay for saving a frame.

IME leverage is what you need to remove stubborn bottom brackets – thats why I have a 3ft piece of scaffolding pole that fits over my BB tool! Its best done with the frame semi built up too – with wheels in – rather than the frame in a clamp as there’s nowhere on a frame you can safely grip it tightly.

freeze the BB?

freeze the BB?

it’s probably in an alloy shell in the frame so that would shrink quicker than the steel/Ti cups on the bb?

I was going to suggest freezing the BB too – this stuff?

Otherwise cut the BB out – I’ve had a BB cut out of a frame before (by a decent frame builder though). It’d been in there 12 years. I’d probably favour cutting it out then freezing it, not idea what the extremes of temp might do to the shell.

Do they need to man up?

They’re people. yes they’ve got better facilities, but its a difficult job and one you can’t do. It doesn’t stop being a difficult job because you taken it to a bike shop. Bike shop – not engineering works.

You have all the time in the world to spend on it, but I bet you’d baulk at £30 per hour and the potential damage that may happen if you gave them free-reign.

Its not worth their hassle beyond a certain point, because its highly likely you’re not prepared to pay for more workshop time and they have other paying work they have commitments to already.

Needs more leverage – don’t be scared 😉

It’s the blase way they keep saying it, it came across that they do that on most bottom brackets that they remove. Like you might if you didn’t have a two foot bar to get some leverage into it. That and they decided to soak it before even trying to get it out. Dunno, just didn’t inspire confidence. Guess I’ll give another shop a go on monday.

Fortunately I have a pillar drill, but I’m not sure it’ll come out like that without a lot of work. Such a pain! Just had a look at a picture of the bottom bracket, it looks quite solid so expecting a lot of work to drill it out. I was hoping to ebay the BB.

It was sold as:

“The frame set does need attention in regards to its lacquer. It will need respraying here and there. But other than that the frame functions as a beauty when equipped with the right components. The royce titanium bottom bracket which costs alone around £120 will need a special key if needed to be removed, which I do not obtain any more. It will also need light grease to manoeuvre swiftly. All in all in good condition.”

Probably got a reasonable case for a refund?

I’d be using a bigger lever and hoping the threads sheared before the carbon gave up.

And triple check you’re turning it the right way 😉

What the bike shop is probably implying is that they don’t want to exert any more force in getting it out for fear of breaking the frame and you expecting them to stump up for a new frame. I guess the amount of force you give it yourself is related to how lucky you feel.

hoping the threads sheared before the carbon gave up.

this is the problem – the BB carrier is probably only bonded into the frame – you start leaning onm it with scaffolding you’ll just be testing if a steel/corrosion/Alloy bond is stronger than a CF/resin/alloy one.

My money is on the corrosion winning.

Do they need to man up

No…sounds like you do though.
Actually…They are lying….they do that for fun. 😐
If they damaged the frame trying to get it out you’d go mental at them.If they took half a day to drill out the bb and charged a full half days labour + new hardened drill bits you’d go mental.
It’s not really their fault you’ve bought a ringer.

Part of the reason for the shop not wanting to do it is profit Vs potential damage arguments about blame etc.

I wouldn’t take the job either given the potential for something terminal happening for the few quid it would bring in

Do they need to man up?

They’re people. yes they’ve got better facilities, but its a difficult job and one you can’t do. It doesn’t stop being a difficult job because you taken it to a bike shop. Bike shop – not engineering works.

You have all the time in the world to spend on it, but I bet you’d baulk at £30 per hour and the potential damage that may happen if you gave them free-reign.

Its not worth their hassle beyond a certain point, because its highly likely you’re not prepared to pay for more workshop time and they have other paying work they have commitments to already

So what are you saying? Yes or no? You seem to have managed to contradict yourself in amongst trying to imply that I don’t want to pay them to do the work.

I go with putting the BB tool in a vice then turning the frame. You get a pretty good feel for how much force is too much, better than using big levers.

Because they’d never think of that…having never had a seized bb in the workshop before 🙄

You’re reading too much into what I’ve written.

Are you prepared to pay 30, 60, 90 quid? Everyones got a cut off limit, and they might just not want the hassle.

I tend to agree the bike shop are looking at effort vs risk and coming down on the side of ‘let’s not risk anythign else’.

If you’re playing about at home then you a) have the time and b) can make your own risk assesment.

If you don’t want to diy then give Argos Cycles a call – they’ll be far better equipped to deal with this sort of issue as they’ll have some more meaty drilling and cutting equipment available to them than your lbs.

I’d try and get your money back off the seller first – sounds like you’ve got reasonable grounds

Well you would probably pick up the phone and, you know, ask if it was going to cost a lot? Or if you don’t want the hassle, you might just say that too. Thing is the whole way it’s been handled and the various conversations I’ve had with them didn’t instill any confidence at all, but I was there and they had the correct tool, so I thought go with it and see if they get it done.

I’m really asking whether it’s likely that titanium would corrode to aluminium, how effective penetrating oil is and whether the reason they can’t do it is more likely that they’re busy and don’t want the money than because it’s properly stuck.

I need to decide whether to a) refund, b) try another shop and have them risk writing the frame off or c) drill the bb out somehow and risk writing the frame off.

Galvanic corrosion is particularly bad between those two. Theres a reason its called ‘cold welding’.

🙁

they’re busy and don’t want the money

😆

what NICKJB said, bb tool in a vice and use the frame as a lever. seen people try everything and then this method finally gets it out

I don’t have the tool for a Royce BB, which is why I took it to the bike shop. I also don’t have a vice. I’ll ask them whether they tried that when I collect, and then take it to a second bike shop for another go. Then go for a refund if that doesn’t work. if the seller is an arse about it and ebay don’t want to know then I’ll bring out the big guns and see how strong the frame is…..

pussies.

soaking a carbon frame in oil penetrating?!
is that not asking for trouble?

I had a BB stuck in a frame, and tried heating it, and hammering it, and cutting it, and freezing it, and made a right mess of the BB.

they put it in a sturdy stand, BOLTED the tool on using the crank bolt, and got a lever about 3 m long, and it just slipped out.

if it doesn’t work, your lever isn’t big enough, end of.

I’d go for the refund via ebay first. They nearly always side with the buyer so you should get your money back less what it costs you to post it back. As said before corrosion between different metals can be bad and really hard to seperate on smaller threads let alone the size and depth of bottom bracket threads. If you have another go and it breaks you have lost your money and why should you when you have been ripped off. FWIW I saw that ad on ebay and thought it was a wrong’un.

It was a bargain for £78, but there’s usually a reason why things go cheap – fewer bidders willing to take the gamble. The Royce BB tool is pretty crap and not good for applying high torque even when properly bolted in. Hard to exert big leverage when the frame’s in a workstand too – far too easy to fold the frametubes first.If the OP still wants the frame and is willing to invest a bit more, send it to Argos or a good local framebuilder. If you’ve lost faith, go down the refund route.

You need to tell the shop you dont hold them liable if they break the frame using a bigger lever, plus they maybe need to do a bit of good old fashioned faffing – things like tightening the BB a bit, then trying to undo.

Fortunately I have a pillar drill,
It sounds like you have some gear, & therefore some idea? I would’ve aquired the proper BB tool & tried myself rather than fob it off to a bike shop. Do it yourself or either take it to an engineer/frame builder, or get your dosh back.

If you were going to sell the BB, presumably it’s in good order. Can you not just use it?

a bit of good old fashioned faffing – things like tightening the BB a bit, then trying to undo

I was just about to suggest that. Counter-intuitive, but has worked for me many times.

One way or the other your going to have to put the frame under a lot of pressure to remove the bb and being carbon would you still trust it? Thats without taking into account what the previous owner has done as he could well have tried to remove the bb himself and sold it on because he couldn’t.

An airgun with BB tool fitted. Removes 100% of all BB’s known to man 🙂

Does it have to be removed – it’s a very nice BB.
Change of chainset?

With carbon frames they epoxy an aluminum BB outer shell in the frame, into which you screw the BB itself, so too much leverage and you’ll shear the epoxy and loose the BB shell – although you could try to re-epoxy back in. The instructions on all my Scott carbon frames say don’t apply a lot of torque, just screw it in hand tight using some thread lock to stop in undoing.

Btw take care trying to drill a titanium bb, you need a very slow speed, plenty of coolant and lots of expensive cobalt drills.

Tdh i wouldn’t bother and just get your money back….

Oh and I agree with above if i was your LBS i wouldn’t want to spend hours and hours sorting it for the possible pittance you are looking to pay.

WHAT’S WRONG WITH THE Ti BB???????
£78 for carbon frame and Royce BB is a bargain.

When I said the I was going to sell the BB, that was either before I’d tried it or before I realised it was a sealed unit. I thought the bearings were serviceable. I haven’t given them enough of a spin to establish whether the bearings are ok or not, they didn’t feel great but I wasn’t really paying attention, they might be ok. But then the frame’s life is limited to the life of the bearings and would have no re-sale value once it’s done.

New cranks are an option, but the plan was a cheap swap of bits rather than an expensive process as this will be a winter-only bike when I buy a new one in the spring. Any suggestions for cheap square taper triple chainsets?

I’m going to speak to the seller and see how things are likely to progress regarding a refund, if he’s difficult it could take a while I think.

The actual frame is fantastic, it’s in decent condition, very light and a bargain at £78. Dammit.