Genuine question – I commute through Balham and clapham every day along the blue cycle lane at the edge of the road (2m wide). If cars are static in a jam and one is indicating to turn left up a road who should give way under the highway code ? Is it the same if the cars are moving ? I always slow up a bit and generally give way to the car but seen a few proper testosterone roadies hearl abuse at cars cutting across when the bike was a good 20 to 30m away at the start of indicating ?? Is the bike technically undertaking ?

Undertaking doesn’t really exist. You would be passing overtaking on the left. As you are in a lane, I think the only guidance the highway code gives is about letting vehicles pull in, i.e. you don’t pass a car on the left if they are indicating left, although I can see that may not accurately describe this situation.

Incidentally, the highway code makes no provision for a bike to pass a car on the left unless there is a lane to do so, although I’m more than happy to be proved wrong if someone can point me in the right direction.

Yeah just had a quick read of the highway code and no mention of this situation ?

shit infrastructure and no cycling culture in the uk.

You should have the right of way to the letter of the highway code and the courts are now starting to acknowledge this if it came to that but in the real world if a big metal box is indicating left across you make a practical judgement.

are the drivers crossing a dashed white line? IMO same as always you give way.

not exactly the same but IMO same rules apply.

Not sure there are dashed white lines, will check. I think the car has right of way if they give adequate warning ?

You should have the right of way to the letter of the highway code

Where do you see this?

Rules 182 and 183 seems to cover it.

183 –

When turning keep as close to the left as is safe and practicable, give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway FROM EITHER DIRECTION

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

In reality, given the average driver’s knowledge of the code I’d assume I won’t be given right of way and take appropriate precautions. Slow moving traffic – merge into lane and pass left turning car on right. Stopped traffic – ensure I’m not being doored with the signal meaning he is stopping to let someone out.

I give way to the car as this seems to me common sense plus safest option. I do get pissed off if a car pushes past (going to close etc) then cuts me up but most cars (they’re becoming well trained in inner London) give it large with the indicators and check blind spots and generally its all quite orderly and courteous.

Yes we have our lane but to me we have to let others cross it!

I don’t accept this rule about ‘if a pedestrian has stepped off the pavement…’ Rule 1 of the Highway Code says to pedestrians…..’look both ways first. Always show due care and consideration for others’. and that doesn’t include stepping out in front of a bike because you cant be bothered to look, or pause, or stop using headphones or wearing a hoodie or massive umbrella. B@stards!

Rules 182 and 183 seems to cover it.

183 –

Thanks.

seosamh’s highway code.

Rule 1. If conflict seems likely, give way regardless, what’s the hurry.
Rule 2. Big metal things kill you.

No one has right of way, you might just have priority over other road users
Cars hurt if they hit you

Ride assertively but defensively, an accident avoided is much better than an accident that is someone elses fault

Rule 1. If conflict seems likely, give way regardless, what’s the hurry.
Rule 2. Big metal things kill you.

Works for me

Rule 1. If conflict seems likely, give way regardless, what’s the hurry.
Rule 2. Big metal things kill you.

These points can just as easily be applied to drivers as reasons to slow down, be patient, make good observations, and not manoeuvre your vehicle into the paths of vulnerable road users.

Making a decision to always give way to the Proper People in their cars, because their journey is somehow more important, gives rise to a “might is right” mentality on the road, where priority is unofficially decided by the weight and power of the vehicle.

In the case of the OP, it is the responsibility of the turning vehicle to ensure that the way is clear before manoeuvring. When you are driving a car and another vehicle is indicating to move into your lane, you are not automatically expected to brake and let it in. That’s not how road priority works.

“What’s the hurry?” is a good mantra for using the roads, but shouldn’t just apply to cyclists 😉

Whatever the legality of it I’d be wary of stopping dead on a cycle superhighway given the general levels of riders on them and the general ability to look ahead and anticipate – you’re likely to get rear-ended or cause a pile up. Bikes don’t have brake lights so no-one behind will have a clue you’re slowing up.

Which leaves you in a tricky place I agree…

I’d be thinking about slowing up in case the car moves into your lane and shouting a warning to the riders behind.

I don’t accept this rule about ‘if a pedestrian has stepped off the pavement…’ Rule 1 of the Highway Code says to pedestrians…..’look both ways first. Always show due care and consideration for others’.

I live on a fairly large estate of perhaps 200 houses. The main pedestrian route from town/bus stops crosses the main access road. I’m young and fit and often a car will appear around the corner when I am less than halfway across. The law abiding courteous drivers will let me carry on across, but the self righteous ‘cars rule’ types will barrel through, leaving me standing in the middle of the road, hoping that the bus coming the other way will look left before pulling out and squashing me. I assume drivers get more polite as you get more frail as I’ve not heard of any elderly people getting squashed recently.

Same with the odd pedestrian standing on the centre line trying to cross a road in the dark, traffic going past both ways. If I see them in time I will always stop, they are already in the road when you see them, so they have right of way.

Can I add a third rule to Seosam’s ‘code’?

3) see eveything, even if it hasn’t happened yet.

similar to a bus lane really, cars turning across it should give way if there is traffic approaching from the real…that certainly would for a bus, technically it should be the same for a bike.

ahwiles – Member
Can I add a third rule to Seosam’s ‘code’?

3) see eveything, even if it hasn’t happened yet.

Yes, good addition, special mention to the loonballs that stick their hand out and change lanes without looking behind them. Crazy if you ask me. (I actually saw some teachers teaching children to do this one time, was really tempted to chin them about it.)

Basically make eye contact with drivers.

If you’re making a manoeuvre which involves crossing another lane, existing traffic in that lane has priority. I can’t offhand think of a single instance where this is not the case, whether it’s a bike lane, a motorway lane or Cleo Lane.

The counterpoint to this though is that people are idiots and being in the right does you little practical good when you’re under the wheels of a bus.

These points can just as easily be applied to drivers as reasons to slow down,

Yip, good advice for everyone, i think! 🙂

this is why you should never flash folk across infront of you …..

seemingly clear cycle lane – knobber on the car lane stops and flashes the oncoming traffic into the junction on the otherside of cycle lane. who proceeds to cross both lanes without looking

BAM – my bikes entered his car via the side window after he panic brakes half way across the lane.

I cannot think of a time when it’d be safe for a cyclist to be riding down a road, either in a cycle lane or not, approaching a car from behind that is already indicating to turn left, and think

“oh, I think I have priority so I think i’ll pass this vehicle that will shortly be turning left and is indicating to do so on the left hand side”…….

seosamh has it right. If you see a car indicating to turn left, let it.

These points can just as easily be applied to drivers as reasons to slow down, be patient, make good observations, and not manoeuvre your vehicle into the paths of vulnerable road users.

And those rules can and should be used to encourage car drivers to modify their behaviour.

But when I’m on my bike I tend to take the view that I don’t want to die and big metal boxes may not always behave as I would like them to.

+1 to all the wise words above re accident avoidance

Extra care at this time of year too!

If you’re making a manoeuvre which involves crossing another lane, existing traffic in that lane has priority.

Actually this gets on to something I’ve been wondering about recently…

Picture a stationary queue of traffic on a fairly wide two way road. There’s room for a cyclist to pass to the right of them without crossing the centre line.

On the other side of the road are parked cars, so cars coming the other way have to cross the centre line to proceed, which there is normally room for so traffic flows normally.

Who has priority – an overtaking cyclist who hasn’t crossed the centre line, or cars coming the other way who have?

I presume the answer is “the cyclist, but you’d be crazy to try it”…

I’m not entirely sure which bit you refer to, but irrc lots of the Cycle “Super Highways” are not bike lanes. The blue paint (with no solid or dashed line at the edge) is essentially meaningless so treat it as a normal road with respect to the Highway Code. Though as above, I usually take a cautious approach regardless of right of way, but it’s not always easy.

It’s all so depressing isn’t it? I largely have “Just Stay Alive” approach to cycling these days, so I give way sometimes when I shouldn’t have to, just because I don’t trust any vehicle driver at all, ever, to not be a prick or an idiot, or both…

I’ve been honked at for not letting car drivers overtake on tiny little city back roads with cars parked both sides, where to let them past I would have to dismount and squeeze into a gap between cars. An insane expectation that cars should always have priority.

So I just keep my head down, my eyes open, and a prayer on my lips…