*implodes*

It is obvious why. In the event of a crash on the highway the driver (and passengers) of a car have various levels of protection provided by the car (the metal chassis, crumple zones, seatbelt, airbags). A cyclist or motorcyclist does not have those various levels of protection which makes wearing a helmet more important for safety.

You have highlighted the confusion very well – thanks.

This is a very good summary of the evidence – beware secondary effects

Bicycle Helmets and the law: a perfect teaching case for epidemiology.

I’m not sure but I get the feeling most are saying ‘no’ to helmets? Or maybe they are saying ‘yes’ to choice?

I think what people are saying (well, I am) is that all the work and expense of making helmets compulsory would be far better invested in improving facilities for cycling.

Making people wear plastic hats when they still have to share a dual carriageway with an artic is putting the money and effort in the wrong place.

Is anyone arguing for compulsion here?

Not here, no – but this study will be used to argue for it elsewhere I’m sure.

Is anyone arguing for compulsion here?

The compulsory threat is in the background otherwise there is no discussion and may as well be about what colour socks you should wear when cycling

kerley – Member
Is anyone arguing for compulsion here?
The compulsory threat is in the background otherwise there is no discussion and may as well be about what colour socks you should wear when cycling

I’m pretty sure it’s white that you should wear, my dad told me when I was younger, although I tend to wear black.

And shorts have to be black, harking back to the times when TTing was illegal on public roads, so riders wore dark clothing to be inconspicuous.

Anyway yeah I think the compulsion argument is always in the back of people’s heads, and rightly too. Compulsion would be, overall, a very bad thing – the motorsports analogy is a good one.

Edit- that said I’ve wondered for years why 4 or 6 point harnesses aren’t mandated instead of airbags becoming standard. It’d be a similar level of faff to putting a helmet on, and would enhance safety as you’re not relying on everything working (or on remembering to turn on/off the passenger one when you have rear facing child seats in)

tjagain – Member
*implodes*

*Laughs loudly.*

I think what people are saying (well, I am) is that all the work and expense of making helmets compulsory would be far better invested in improving facilities for cycling.

+1.

If I fall off my bike, I’d rather be wearing a helmet, but it’s just not that important in the big scheme of things.

@philjunior – I don’t know how old you are but until Volvo invented the inertial reel seatbelt (and then allowed royalty free copies/use of it as they realised it was such a safety boost) then seatbelts had to be adjusted to each individual when you got in the car.

Helmet: I wear one – it’s one less thing to worry about if I fall off but I’m under no illusion about the protection it offers should I be involved in a collision with a motor vehicle.

Helmets (for everyday road riding) are pretty much a waste of time IMO. A lot of the pro-helmet “research” is junk and almost none of it attempts to adress what is surely the most important question: would the net effect of helmet compulsion be positive or negative?

The answer is because people think car driving is a normal everyday thing that everyone does, whereas riding a bike is an unusual and probably dangerous activity.

and I think cycling is a normal everyday activity (tho quite a few alleged mountain bikers seem to disagree). Throwing myself off a mountain – lid up, riding my road bike very fast – lid please, racing even if it wasn’t a rule – I’d have my helmet on. Pootling to the shops probably not, nipping to the train station or round to a mates, nah.
Merely riding your bike is a low risk activity in which case personal choice is A Good Thing, removing that choice will be detrimental to cycling and quite possibly the population as a whole.

Merely riding your bike is a low risk activity, that can be easily made high risk by incompetence in which case personal choice is A Good Thing.

Fixed that for me, which is why I wear a helmet 🙂

@philjunior – I don’t know how old you are but until Volvo invented the inertial reel seatbelt (and then allowed royalty free copies/use of it as they realised it was such a safety boost) then seatbelts had to be adjusted to each individual when you got in the car.

Ah I am old enough to remember my parents having rear seatbelts and this being an option/unusual – I think it may have been a Volvo, but inertia reel seatbelts were certainly commonplace across many manufacturers by then. I’ve been on a helicopter with 4 point but inertia reel on the shoulder straps, so you have to adjust a bit but it’s not too much hassle (and in the case of a car, you’d be able to reach out to the toll booth/radio/satnav without having to loosen your straps).

I remember my dad buying and installing rear seatbelts in our cars. When we were younger he installed five point harnesses in the back for us, which involved drilling holes in the body. No-one had car seats then.

Can we wrap up this thread then.

Helmets work
Compulsion bad

Ok?

Can we wrap up this thread then.

where’s the fun in that molgrips? Still several hours to go before clocking off time.

Can we wrap up this thread then.

Helmets work
Compulsion bad

Not that easy. Compulsion bad is clear but Helmets work is not so clear.

Helmets work

Depends… 🙂

Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Anyone who wants to think a little more about this the here are two links
http://www.badscience.net/2013/12/bicycle-helmets-and-the-law-a-perfect-teaching-case-for-epidemiology/

http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaign/cycle-helmets-evidence

Note that promoting helmets ( not even compulsion) will actually increase public ill health by far more than the number of injuries and deaths saved

Beware the secondary effects!

I’m thinking maybe Mr Greenway should be calling for a ban on selfies when riding

Oh yeah, and compulsory helmets for car drivers
http://www.monash.edu/muarc/research/our-publications/atsb160

WOW, Klunk, that’s pretty hard to imagine that woman one minute a picture of health and vitality the next it’s curtains, that is so sad to see,

I’d just like to add my anecdotal two penneth, many moons ago, very early 90’s when bike helmets started to appear on shelves I thought it would be cool to wear one, I bought a pearl white one from Halfords and no sooner had I got it out of the box I perched it on my canister and off I went, the early helmets literally sat on top of your head like a surf board.

Straight out onto my favourite bit of trail, as I leant off the back of my bike to swoop under a very thick branch off a fallen tree that had been there for years and still is to this day……. lights out! I’d not factored in the hight of my lid, I hit it that hard I bit through my tongue, cheek, crushed some vertebrae and had severe neck strain for years after.

Anyhow, I’ve fallen off properly lots since, once so bad on it proper Dirt Jumps I split the helmet in 2, same thing lights out, concussion, brain scan…… CYB the other year, I rolled so far on my front wheel I actually had time to think? I can control this right before landing on the visor and front part of the helmet taking all the impact away from my face.
A beauty in Les Arcs last year on Black8. Oh and that sunny Sunday afternoon I looped out at Fairholmes manualing towards the cafe from the Dam wall right in front of that family who just happens to be Doctors, I thank you! I smacked the back of my BELL super that hard as I landed flat out on my back that I thought a rifle had gone off next to my head.

So despite my early hiccup I’m glad to say I’ve stuck with it and wouldn’t like to have been in any of the offs without a lid.

Mother dies from bike crash moments after taking this smiling selfie on her way home

Perhaps riding one handed at night on a bumpy road while taking selfies was not a good idea.

It’s a strange one to result in a call for a helmet law. No law is needed. If anyone wants to wear a helmet they can. Even the fact this woman’s husband saw a clubmate killed earlier this year after hitting a pothole wasn’t enough for her to wear one.

A better idea would be rider education as many crashes are avoidable with a bit of care and attention..

http://road.cc/content/news/206912-husband-woman-who-died-after-fall-bike-says-helmets-should-be-mandatory

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2704016/Drunk-student-died-tripping-pothole-cracking-skull-way-home-friends-birthday-party.html

Mandatory helmets for drunk students

If I was ever to wear a helmet doing anything it would have been when walking home pissed from the pub.

At the risk of seeming insensitive*, the “death by selfie” incident would support an argument for banning narcissism, rather than bicycle helmet compulsion…

One persons unfortunate anecdote still doesn’t actually make for a compelling argument…

(*ok basically being insensitive).

I think all of our reactions probably are, but it’s the sort of thing which is inevitable when the reaction of the family to an incident like that is to call for helmet compulsion for others.

These studies are all irrelevant and inaccurate because they don’t take into account all the people who smacked their heads wearing a helmet, but did not see it as worthy of and reporting, but who would possibly be seeking a nurse with handy needlecraft skills if no helmet had been worn. As someone else said, hurts less with a lid on, even if it wouldn’t have killed you.

I was down in the smoke yesterday and read the Evening Standard story of the lady who died; riding back from the pub while taking a selfie…

Yes, sorry for the family and all that but for her husband to call out for mandatory helmets did make me scream (inside).

Although in his defence they were from Aus/NZ where they are compulsory, she didn’t obviously consider that she needed to wear one HERE…

The result of such policy appears to be (in broad rather than specific terms) that people cycle back from the pub less. So I suppose he may have a point…

Clearly the data is not available but be interesting to get a view of how many people in the UK wear helmets when cycling.

I would take a guess that the number of voluntary helmet wearers would be at least 95%. It is very much the norm to see riders wearing helmets.

Do you really need law for a problem that doesn’t really exist?

Still don’t see people leaving the pub wearing them though but that is just evidence of peoples poor risk analysis…

under half of all cyclists in the UK wear helmets from the data I have seen.

I was riding home the other day. There were 2 girls going the opposite direction on those Pendleton style bikes. One was on the path, the other was on the road. The road side one had no helmet, normal (not riding) clothes, one hand holding a drink the other on the bars.. A car went past really bloody close! I thought “Ooh”.

… and your point is?

If she was wearing a helmet the car wouldn’t have came so close??

would take a guess that the number of voluntary helmet wearers would be at least 95%. It is very much the norm to see riders wearing helmets.

amongst “enthusiasts” I.e. MTBers, roadies, etc, probably. Everybody else? (students, people using bikes to get around town, commute on cycle paths, family rides, pop to the shops, etc) helmet use seems very minimal, at least round my way.