Chez Harry has a back wall with a patio door adjacent to a window, small brick pier in the middle.

We are looking to have the pier knocked out and a steel put in, then a set of bi-folds fitted.

Opening will be 3.5m wide onto the patio.

Has anyone had something similar done? Any lessons learned? Any considerations that I may have missed….building regs? etc….

How are the doors in the weather? too warm in the summer? Noticeably colder in the winter?

Any pointers would be appreciated.

Yes

A warning from the builders who have just dug up my “yard” in prep for a conservatory is to put adequate run off away from the house and drainage so any water won’t come through the low threshold bi-fold doors typically have.

They have had to rework someone’s very expensive slate patio because of rain running through the doors. A 20mm slot drain wasn’t “adequate” apparently. Whatever the original installers recommended.

Interested in this as we’re going to have our patio doors replaced soon, wondering about pros and cons of sliding patio doors compared to bi-folds. Contemplating having a set made to measure and installing them myself, can’t be that hard shirley? I imagine there’s huge variance in quality, any recommendations?

Make sure they are installed by a professional window fitter, approved by the window manufacturer: poorly fitted bi- folding doors are worse than useless.

Sunflex, Kloeber etc make good ones, as long as they are installed properly.

Oh, and I echo the above regarding adequate runoff away from the house. If you can’t archive this, then put in a linear threshold drain (ACO, or similar).

We went for sliding instead of bifold as there is a lot less frame in the middle compared to glass, they look miles better.
Sound & air tight, make the house come alive 🙂

If you live at the top end of a field with the opening facing away from the prevailing wind and are not on a flight path go bifold.
Large sliding aluminium framed has less frame, better sound insulation and is far less likely to leak.

We’ve just put in some sunflex triple glazed bifolds over a slightly bigger gap that you mention, c.4m. I’m constantly amazed by how good they are at retaining heat, particularly through this recent cold spell. It feels like there is no heat loss at all and you certainly don’t get a cold area next to the doors. Can’t fault them in any way.

We had a 5m Solarlux doors fitted last year. Very happy with them, draughtproof and waterproof. Ours open outwards, so the wind pushes the doors against the seals, as advised by our supplier. Patio is a couple of inches lower than internal level, and slighlty slopes away from the house, so, for us, a 20mm drain is fine.

Yes we had it done and it was a disaster. I asked an architect pal to recommend the best quality bifold doors, which he did and we contacted the UK distributor who were somewhere like Slough or Marlow. Their sales manager came up and met with the builder and between them they scratched their chins and eventually decided what to do. The supplier then sent a drawing of the installation. The builder disappeared. We got another builder who turned out to be an idiot. He made a big hole in our house and put in a Catnic beam. The door fitters arrived; big excitement – until they realised the hole was EXACTLY the same size as the door frame and nobody had though to make the hole smaller so the doors could abut up against the opening from the inside. The second problem was that the drawing didn’t show that the doors needed to sit on a solid lintel; it just showed the inner and outer walls, so the fitters had to drive all the way back south while we got the builder back to fill the void with concrete. Next day the fitters came back (at our expense – I should have just paid for them to stay at a local B&B for the night) and had to bodge the fitting with strips of aluminium up the edges.

An additional cockup was that the builder decided he couldn’t be bothered to fit a lintel to match the others in the house and just fitted the Catnic beam at a convenient height for himself, meaning I had to rush out to get a long piece of timber cut and planed to fill the 4″ gap at the top, which the fitters then covered with plastic stuck on.

I admit I lacked experience but I was badly disappointed at the supplier and the builder and unhappy with the job and their failure to plan for the job properly.

However the quality is superb, the doors are warm and weatherproof and a happy benefit of the gap at the top is that there was space inside the rebate to fit four Somfy electric roller blinds to keep out the hot sun in summer.

It still grieves me now just writing this.

Just had this done; 4.2m run with 6 bifold engineered oak doors from Jeld-Wen in a 5:1 split. As it was facing the prevailing weather and we were building a raised patio apron, the builder advised against trying to keep levels, so there’s a step down and a fall on the patio to deal with drainage. Good move, considering the last few months.
I wanted to go with sliding powder-coated aluminium, but the Dom.Sec. had the deciding vote, and now installed, I can appreciate the difference.

We just got Everest to do it and paid the price, they’re fine.

Yes, i’ve got two sets on my extension. They’re brilliant. Can’t see any downsides really (apart from the frameless aspect if that bothers you). They’re really solid, lock at every junction and are great when fully open in ‘summer’ mode. I could have gone with one huge appeture rather than two, but the extra cost in the steels to go over the span and the cost of the doors would have been hugely significant. I’ve had sliding patio doors and French Windows in the past and these are much better I think. When fully open and folded up they stick out about 1 to 1.5 feet, so alot less intrusive on the Patio area than French Doors, and of course the whole apeture is open rather than half, so benefitial over sliding Patio doors in that regard. Security is good too because each panel locks into the frame on both sides and the end panel acts as a normal width door for convenient access. They cost about an extra £1000 more over French windows – so £500 each set. We’re V.happy with them.

Yep 2 sets approx 3m each across the back of our house.

They were supplied by these guys via a local window fitter – Origin

No problems with them really – we’ve got a decent sized step-off down to a block-paved patio and the installation is fairly sheltered (small back garden)

I’d buy them again, simply because opening up the back of the house on a warm summers day is awesome!!

Cheers for the pointers guys……

Few things in there to worry about, we are at the top of the hill and the back of the house gets a fair battering off a south easterly, current ten year old upvc windows and slidings doors have leaked a little in the biggest of gales, hence the consideration of replacement.

Doors will be fitted by a reputable local window fitters who I know installs bi folds for a number of developers locally. Problem might be with the builders, hopefully he has his own team who will not muck up the back of my house. We do have blown polystyrene cavity insulation so I would hope they have a plan to stop that leaking out as soon as they start hacking the house about.

Currently a decent step down from the back of the house, not overly bothered on a smooth transition from inside to out because of the step, will just be nice to throw the doors open in summer.

Will report back for anyone interested after the chap has been round to price them up on Saturday morning.

What material are you thinking? I’ve seen some shocking ones, but also some very, very nice ones. I might make a few actually, but tend to be part of a full house extension. Mine are all in wood and they don’t leak water or air, but certainly they aren’t cheap! I also make all mine with a step over which isn’t the grand designs way, but stops water coming through when a wind blown puddle forms against the outside! The gear used to hang them also makes an enormous difference, always pay more for bits that move!

Interested in this as we’re going to have our patio doors replaced soon, wondering about pros and cons of sliding patio doors compared to bi-folds. Contemplating having a set made to measure and installing them myself, can’t be that hard shirley? I imagine there’s huge variance in quality, any recommendations?

Sliders are half the price of bi-folds when we looked around.

Bifolds also can’t be massively wide (approx 1000-1200mm if I remember), the frames are pretty chunky too and we looked into the blinds built into the glazing – by the time you add all that up there wasn’t a massive amount of glass really.

We had 8 metre span to cover so ended up with two fixed panels at the ends and two big sliders opening into them. I’m happy with them and though we were wanting the bi-folds to start with I think it was the best choice for us. For a smaller gap it might have been 50/50 on slider or bifold.

I had them done over two years ago – Rehau profiles, white uvpc. Bodged by the fitters, bodged again and now they are into liquidation. Looking at a sizeable bill to get them replaced – will go aluminium this time. The concept it self works IMO but be careful who fits them.

We only have a bog standard set of small patio doors (about 2m square) so yes there would be a lot of frame with bi-folds. For double the price think I’ll go for decent quality sliders.

We have just fitted some of these

https://www.creativedoorsdirect.co.uk/#icon-ourdoors

So much cheaper than anything I found elsewhere and I am really happy with the quality. They came unfinished so I treated with clear Osmo UV Oil and they look great.

We replaced an old set of French Doors (ie sliding ones) and although there is less viewing area when closed, they look a trillion times better when opened.

Make sure he FENSA so he can self certify otherwise you’ll need to get Building Control involved.

2.4m 3 folds in Hardwood.
Step down so no issue re drainage, although flush on inside.

Lessons – Hardwood is not what is used to be unless you pay megabucks, it does look good, but manufacturer almost lost it on finishing details & onsite repair.

If I was doing it again I’d get metal (some have wood veneers so it looks like wood, but limited colour choice).

Builders have to be on the ball with heavy duty lintels and be there when they cut the hole to ensure the whole measure twice(4 to be sure!) cut once.

Still waiting for decent weather to get the best out of them though.

we went for aluminium as the wooden ones we have seen have shrunk with weather conditions and left a gap in the frame – but they could have been badly made ones – and the uPVC ones were just horrible to use

Had some done a few years back by an outfit near the Bradford Bulls ground. Utter crap and they were cowboys.

Get them done properly.

We thought about it, but we used the back door for leaving/ entering the house via the back garden. We thought that having to slide the doors open every time would be a pain so we went for French doors instead.

drlex – must be a pain passing the salt on that table

Bookmarked for the day we can finally afford to do the bloody kitchen.
V.interesting.

Ours are likely to be Smart Visofold 1000 aluminium, probably white outside, grey inside (think white will look too harsh).

With the fitter being Fensa registered (he is) does that remove the requirement for Building Control even if they are making structural alterations?

Do they need to provide job specific designs for the steel / lintol or do they just throw in something overdesigned?

I had them done over two years ago – Rehau profiles, white uvpc. Bodged by the fitters, bodged again and now they are into liquidation.

This +1, our fitters learnt on the job I think. Doors are just about ok, but not impressed.

And I learnt the hard way that it’s up to the buyer to send off the card to FENSA to get the work covered when the installers go bust.

Had them done. I would reiterate the bit about the rainwater. If there is a strong wind and rain it is possible to get rain coming in under the doors but they are ok normally

Also, the inside floor has to be very flat over one door width if they are gong to fold inwards as I imagine they would. It doesn’t take much for them to stick, especially if they are quite tight to reduce draughts

Finally, the hinges can be quite large as they have to hold the weight of two doors – you might not like the look.

Like them though 🙂

theyre the latest must have on a house or flat, like conservetries where previously.

Its down to construction of the doors, sealing, security, and the ability of the trade team to make them fit the aperture, theyve not become that old that in built or inherent problems start to come to light

Aluminium all the way. Brother in law heavily involved in research and development and he works for one of the big boy plastics company’s. Even they use ally.

On the subject of wood framed doors – we moved into ta new place in the summer & the kitchen has a set identical to DrLex’s pic above, only smaller

I’ve noticed recently that the sealer on the wooden external threshold piece is lifting in places & want to fix it before it gets worse & damp sets into the wood, I actually gave it a quick rub back a couple of months ago & a few coats of some ronseal exterior wood protector stuff I had in the shed but that doesn’t look like it’ll last too long – anyone any recommendations for a quality external sealer?

Also – with the recent sub-zero temperatures up here i’ve noticed the door seems slightly stiff some mornings, thought it might be the wooden frame contracting ever so slightly with the cold, more so than the doors themselves – anyone any experience of this?

Cheers,
j

Had I.D.systems/Sunflex installed about 8 years ago, builder of our extension fitted pro-forma frame, so doors dropped in perfect, used a good local firm to install.

Have 4 doors, across 3m, opening outwards, so we dont have to move anything out the way each time we open them.

Good tip if using one door as a main back door, is to specify a single door to hang from the left, with the other doors folding to the right, gives a much stronger fitting as the hinges are fitted close to structural wall, rather than the frame of the adjacent door.

Doors are RAL coloured aluminium, superb thermal properties, no issues to date, apart from noticing a couple of the ext door handles paint is starting to bubble slighty, prob need to respray them in a few years.

With the fitter being Fensa registered (he is) does that remove the requirement for Building Control even if they are making structural alterations?

No – but call your local authority to be sure. It won’t be an issue until you sell the house and then it’ll be a nightmare!

theyve not become that old that in built or inherent problems start to come to light

Erm, bobbins. I’ve been putting out hundereds for the last 10 years, they’re made of wood and work brilliantly, even in runs upto 15m

Aluminium all the way. Brother in law heavily involved in research and development and he works for one of the big boy plastics company’s. Even they use ally.

Well, aluminium are better than PVC (flexes too much, so don’t work well) but you can get the same result in timber. Of course, you can also get crap aluminium and carp timber!

anyone any recommendations for a quality external sealer?

Osmo oil is the best I’ve found and a couple of coats can last several years. You’ll still need to keep on top of it though.

Also – with the recent sub-zero temperatures up here i’ve noticed the door seems slightly stiff some mornings, thought it might be the wooden frame contracting ever so slightly with the cold, more so than the doors themselves – anyone any experience of this?

Yes – this happens as well as the moisture in the timber at this time of year making it all swell up.

Right, things are progressing……

Quotation has been provided by trusted local builder. I have two proposals for the 3.75m opening, first being five leaf with all the sections opening to the right (including the first which will form the traditional “door” part) or four leaf with three going right and the door hung off the frame opening left.

The four leaf door gives a panel size of 93cms which seems quite wide, and an this awkward arrangement with having a door hung on the opposite side to the other three panels. The five leaf door gives a panel size of 750mm, which when the frame is c75mm all round seems to give more frame than glass…..

Interested to see pics with confirmation of panel size and frame width to give me some pointers.

Just to give you some perspective, we buy from Express Bi_folding doors & fit them ourselves. The last one we got was an XP10 measuring 3.25 x 2.1M & we paid £2260 + VAT for supply only.

Cheers Mos, price isn’t far off what I am looking at……

Any thoughts or pics of narrow-ish panels from the evening crowd??

Had a 3 panel set fitted in upvc 3+ years ago and no problems. They face a strong south westerly so often wind and driving rain but all fine. Don’t forget to spec the height of the lip, lower is better.
Installed by a fensa registered company sub contracted by the builder who did the extension and all signed off by Building Control.

EXPRESS BIFOLD
Couldn’t recommend them enough. 3.6 opening comprising of 3 doors including internal blinds. Massive roof lantern (3m x 5m), two windows, all fitted in one day by two blokes who were nothing but polite and tidy. The products are not the cheapest but once you’ve looked at cheap doors and you’ve seen the difference in the gasket/locks/hinges/narrow sight lines and especially the rollers for the bifolds, you won’t be disappointed.
We’ve got the solar internal blinds and although they’re an extra £275 per panel, they’re worth it. We’ve got them in the kitchen window too. Nothing but James Bond awesomeness every day when we open/close them with the remote control!!!