• This topic has 46 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by andyl.
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  • Best value 1×10 set up please
  • slimjim78
    Free Member

    Sorry if this is the umpteenth thread but I’m not having much luck searching.

    I want to switch out a load of cheap components for a full 1×10 or 1x 11 set up. But, I want bargain basement pricing.

    A quick search leads me to shimano SLX at Merlin which for around £90 will afford me rear mech (shadow?) , chain, cassette and shifter.. Then I need front narrow/wide ring and I’m about there right?
    I guess I may need to consider an expander ring?

    And for the odd tenner here or there it seems one can upgrade to, for example, and XT cassette. Or save a fiver and go Deore. And then there’s Zee popping up from time to time..
    Prices are so close these days, is there a definitive ‘this set up just works best’ solution?

    Can you please recommend your best findings and/or point me towards best threads?

    Thanks!

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Sunrace cassette.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Wow, a bit of research reveal you are serious – Sunrace seem to be back in a good way. In fact , am yet to find a bad word about their cassettes.

    I don’t suppose there is a definitive answer to going 1×11 over 1×10 yet?
    From what i can gather, a Sunrace 42t cassette with shimano 10sp shifter and long cage rear mech seems to be best sure fire method to smooth shifting..

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    mikewsmith
    Free Member

    I don’t suppose there is a definitive answer to going 1×11 over 1×10 yet?

    The only thing shimano offer you is an extra gear in the middle of the range on their 11 compared to their 10 with expansion for a decent weight penalty. Sram give you a better range (enough for me to be happy)

    andyl
    Free Member

    Be careful with expanding a 10 speed set up due to the rear mech not being designed for the larger sprockets (look up rad cages). Although I am pretty sure you can diy it with a drill and an m5 tap, just never tried it.

    Sunrace do an 11-40 and 11-42 cassettes. The MS3 are all steel and a bit heavier (XT 11 speed weight) but the MX3 have an aluminium large sprocket and the 11-42 is about 380g so a healthy saving but it will cost you about £20-25 more. They also do an 11 speed 11-42T which is about 400g.

    Sram do a cheap 11-42T 11 speed NX cassette but it’s like a boat anchor at almost 600g! The next one up is the GX which can be had for around £80 but needs an XD freehub as it’s a 10-42T and is just under 400g. Chainline is better compared to shimano though as Sram replace the lockring whereas Shimano 11 speed hangs the large sprocket off the inside of the cassette over the spokes.

    Shimano are bringing out an 11-46 cassette in a couple of weeks which will be able to compete on range with sram 10-42T but let you use a larger chainring, crucially it means you can use old 104 bcd cranks for ratios that would not have been possible before as it needed a smaller spider. 30T round and 32T oval is the limit on 104 so with a 46T cassette you should be able to get away with 32, 34 or maybe more and not suffer.

    if you can stomach the £55 for the XT rear mech then go for 11 speed as you know the mech will shift to the large sprockets okay and the shifters are not much more than 10 speed XT. Otherwise take a punt on a nice cheap 10 speed RD and see if it will work but you might be limited to 40T.

    Superstar currently have 25% off their round and oval narrow-wide rings which will save you some money compared to more expensive ones.

    akeys001
    Full Member

    Fab post andy, I for one have followed, thx

    boxelder
    Full Member

    Second hand, but little used stuff? Absolute black 34t ring, sunrace 11-42 cassette, Zee clutch mech and SLX shifter + XT chain?

    Ecky-Thump
    Free Member

    andyl,
    That’s about the best summary of the relative merits of the various options that I’ve read so far.

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Mid length XT mech works fine on a sunrace 11-42. Needed a longer b screw. I doubt a zee mech would reach, I’ve got one and it only just stretched to a 36.

    boxelder
    Full Member

    Well it’s been working….?

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Well there you go. Learn something every day. I might give it a go.

    Ben_H
    Full Member

    I’ve set up two of our bikes with a 10sp mix of Zee shifter, HG54 chain, HG50 11-36 cassette and Deore clutch mech for £73.

    I have / had 10sp XTR and 11sp XT on other bikes and, while the shifting is definitely more agricultural in feel, the lower spec Zee / Deore setup is more than adequate and certainly good value.

    gonzy
    Free Member

    cheapset 10sp setup usign ZEE/SLX parts i could find was this

    shimano zee shifter – £19 CRC
    shimano zee rear mech – £30 CRC / shimano SLX rear mech – £30 Merlin
    shimano Deore HG54 chain – £12 CRC
    shimano SLX 11-36 cassette – £25 Merlin
    RSP N/W chainring 34t – £21 Merlin

    total spend comes to £107

    you can go cheaper if you opted for Deore cassette and rear mech

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Brilliant, thanks guys.
    And Andy, that’s exactly what I was looking for – thank you!

    Ironically it still leaves me slightly unsure as I ‘think’ I want to go 10sp to keep costs down, but seems there is little guarantee that it’ll work flawlessly. Perhaps a sunrace cassette is the best way to mitigate.
    Otherwise, it seems stepping up to 11sp may be best, but I don’t really want to switch to XD driver, in fact, I’m not sure yet if I can even switch the cheap freewheel on the bike I’m planning on upgrading.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Regarding Zee rear mech, it’s shorter than standard SLX/Deore, right?
    Is this not a limiting factor when stepping up to a 40 or 42t cassette?

    Thanks for the list gonzy, I’d probably switch out for a superstar nw ring with their current 25% off. Shame the Germans aren’t able to get the prices even lower these days! Must be the exchange rate.

    gonzy
    Free Member

    the statndard slx/deore rear mech comes in eother a long cage or a medium cage
    the zee is a short cage…there are 2 versions. the dh version works up to a maximum cassette size of 28t and the fr version up to a max cassette size of 36t

    you might be able to bodge it to work on a larger cassette but it wont be pretty or work reliably
    if you’re thinking of getting a 40/42t expander then you need a long cage rear mech. i think then all you need to do is use a longer screw for the b tension and it should work

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    Yea Superstar got that 25% offer so you can get an oval narrow wide for 19.50…an it’s nice

    I’ve got the zee setup but with a rad cage and a hope extender and it’s very good and but I did get the parts cheap..

    Buuuut I recently bought a new 11 speed xt derailleur,chain ,42t cluster and shifter for £140 .deliverd from tiawan .. I think I’d recommend that tbh..bit dear but it’s a no issue install then

    docrobster
    Free Member

    I’ve got zee mech working fine on my HT with a 40t expander but it’s very sensitive to chain length and might not work on a FS due to chain growth. If going for one of the cheaper 11-36 cassettes remember that you need to be able to remove a sprocket if you want to run an expander. So that means xt or above I think.
    I took delivery of sun race mx3 11-42 and superstar oval today. The 25% off SS and a £ off for a fb like at triton cycles means this was £80.50.
    Decathlon do a rebranded kmc 10speed chain for £14. Much prefer to shimano. Quick link included.
    Then just med cage deore or SLX mech and your choice of shifter.
    Jobs a good un

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    £ off for a fb

    ?

    docrobster
    Free Member

    £1 off for a Facebook like. First orders only I presume. Appeared as I was paying. Clicked the button and a pound was taken off.
    Really good service. Ordered Tuesday delivered Thursday.

    andyl
    Free Member

    More slightly random musings:

    I wouldn’t run the Zee RDs beyond their quoted max capacity or their max sprocket size asthey are quite diddy on a FS. Maybe on a hard tail but I don’t see the point, you are just risking damaging it.

    for 40 or 42T then an SG cage should be fine, should only need SGS on a multi chainring setup.

    Jimmy – you won’t need the XD driver if going with a shimano 11 speed cassette. People seem to think you NEED an XD driver for 11 speed but not with shimano or sunrace 11 speed. Shimano are bringing out an 11-46 cassette soon, it will be heavy at 450g but give you a range similar to the sram 10-42 but let you run a slightly larger chainring which will be more compatible with re-using old 104 bcd 3x cranks and in doing so you get a decent chainline. Remember that shimano 11 speed cassettes hang the larger sprocket off the inside which makes wide chainlines even worse as I believe you should be favouring the larger sprockets on the cassette rather than the smaller ones as they are where you will be spending most of your time (if not then get a larger chainring) and where you will be most likely putting the most load into the chain a higher gear (smaller sprocket) will be at higher rpm so assuming your power stays constant then torque will drop off with rpm.

    The Superstar oval NWs are getting low on stock, glad I grabbed one. If you want a really nice one look at the Absolute blacks on CRC or direct from them. AB do 28t and below for shimano 3x cranks by using the granny ring 64mm bcd mounts. Sadly they don’t have a 30T option but I am hoping I won’t need anything smaller than a 32T anyway and worst case I will grab an XT 11-46T when they come out. Hibike and have them available for pre-order and madison list them so they are on the way.

    The sunrace 11 speed casette is currently cheaper than the lighter mx3 10 speed 11-42T which might offset the cost of the 11 speed XT vs the 10 speed SLX/XT if buying a new setup.

    If you are determined to go 10 speed then Saint shifter from Wiggle. They are lovely. I got one along with an 11 speed XT and the saint is nicer being very light and a lovely click. The XT feels a lot stiffer but I beleive it will loosen off and hopefully end up similar to the 10 speed saint but not sure.

    If you already have a Zee and want to keep it but are worried then you can pick up a set of SG deore cages for peanuts from SJS or for a bit more money SLX or XT (Deore is 2 steel cages but SLX and XT have the inner one in aluminium I think).

    The big factor is future upgrades. Do you tend to buy used or new. If new then 11 speed now or wait a bit longer for SLX 11 speed which is listed on CRC so coming now but don’t expect it to be much cheaper than XT. If used then pick up a cheap 10 speed set up now and then likewise for 10 or wait longer for 12 and jump then.

    Just to add more options I am pretty sure a 10 speed RD will work with 11 speed shifters and even better so if you go the rad cage or DIY rad cage route. I havent seen any actual numbers for the pull ratio on the RDs to know for sure. Maybe buy a shifter, chain and cassette and try it if you have a 10 speed RD already. Worst case you have to buy an XT RD for £50.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Enjoyed your musings.

    Here’s where I’m at..
    I have no components to use – I am planning on switching out a low end 2×8 groupset on my bargain fat bike.
    As its fat im lead to believe I should start with a 30t front ring.
    I have 1×11 sram on my hardtail, which has a nice range, but I’m not as enamoured with the gear change as I was on my old sram 1×9 set up.
    For that reason I’m happy to switch to shimano this time – and having been fairly happy with 1×9 I think I could be happy with 1×10.
    Main reason to lean toward 1×10 is assuming that it’d be cheaper to intitially set up and cheaper to maintain.
    I’ve read numerous accounts of mixed 1x10s not quite indexing so well which has me slightly concerned. Also, being a fat bike I’m not sure if it’ll have an adverse effect on chainline?

    Still undecided!
    Current thinking is SLX Rd, sunrace 10-42 10sp cassette, Saint/SLX/XT shifter, superstar 30t nw ring (ovals virtually out of stock).

    docrobster
    Free Member

    I must have just struck lucky with my zee rd as its worked flawlessly with a 40t extender for 18 months.
    Slimjim the 10sp sunrace is 11-42 not 10-42. Depends if you’re worried about spinning out in 32 or 30×11 I guess.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    1t doesn’t really bother me tbh. I’m more interested in getting up the hills

    explosifpete
    Free Member

    I’m running a 10 speed set up with a 11-32 cassette (I live in Essex) and am using the free ride zee mech, it is really good apart from the cage does get easily jammed up with mud

    BearBack
    Free Member

    Zee with Radr cage, saint shifters and a one-up 42t on xt 11-36 was the best shifting ive had from 10spd.

    Much better than xt with 42t rad cage with xt shifter and far better than xt mech/shifter with 42t and reversed b-tension.

    If I hadn’t been a sucker for the number 11, I really should have done the zee/radr again.

    andyl
    Free Member

    Saint Ispec B shifter is £35 a wiggle at the moment.

    The heavier all steel sunrace 11-42 is cheapest at Triton at the moment I think.

    If you are still tempted by the brakes do have some cheap (£15 pair) slx shifters and an SLX shadow+ rear mech but it’s SGS which will be fine but you would normally choose an SG. Bought it to do 3×10 but not doing that now.

    gonzy
    Free Member

    Saint Ispec B shifter is £35 a wiggle at the moment.

    i recently upgraded my zee shifter to one of these..i paid a few quid less at CRC for it
    the zee was a good shifter if a bit agricultural in feel and use but the saint is a world apart in its feel and performance!!
    to me it feels like an xtr shifter on steroids minus the price tag!!

    letmetalktomark
    Full Member

    The Saint shifter IMHO is a much better shifter than ZEE, SLX and XT

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Yeah I’m going for Saint shifter thanks to the advice here. Just waiting to find out what brakes I pick up before ordering I-spec or standard shifter

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Argh! I’m stuck in a loop. Can’t commit to purchasing the bits as I can’t decide what the best route is.

    I’ve priced up several options, 10sp mix of Saint/SLX/sunrace 11-42t, 11sp SLX, 11sp XT at (give or take a pound or two) £140, £153, £155 respectively – I already have a 30t NW superstar ring on order.

    Therefore, I’d be daft not to plump for the 11sp XT, right?

    It would eliminate any set up issues, although I am slightly concerned about the chainline on my fat rear end with the extra gear over the spokes.
    Also, I bought this bike as a cheap fun machine (£520 for the whole bike!) so it feels a bit wrong just throwing XT at it.
    For some reason I feel like I should be looking at a lower end 10sp set up similar to that listed earlier in the thread (Deore/Zee etc). Plus I really like the sound of this Saint shifter… So, back to square one!

    Make my mind up for me please guys

    n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    Save some weight and go singlespeed for the summer! 😆

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Ha! Fat chance, I can barely get up these hills as it is at the moment

    RamseyNeil
    Free Member

    One other consideration is that the chain line will be better with a 10speed Sunrace casette than with a 11 speed Shimano because the 42 sprocket is dished so that it sits nearer to the spokes , they had to do that to fit 11 sprockets on a standard free hub and quite a few people on here have had issues .it would put me off , you don’t have the same problem with 11 speed Sram using the Xd driver either .

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Yeah I think that may be the deciding factor actually. I’m worried about chainline with a 4.0 tyre, let alone 4.5/4.8

    Seriously tempted to dump £140 on an import M8000 1×11 set up though

    RamseyNeil
    Free Member

    Sounds like a bargain . The 1x. m8000 chainset is actually Designed with holes for an inner chainring so it was made to be a double and as such can make the afore mentioned chain line problems worse .

    divenwob
    Free Member

    Standard 30t 104 BCD raceface crankset
    Sunrace 10 speed 11-42 cassette
    Xt long cage mech,came as standard but my son is running a mid cage Zee with a link. I will run the Zee soon as it is nice and compact,
    Xt or Saint shifter all run sweet.
    No tyre contact with 4″
    I ran 4.6″ Ground Controls on 80mm rims, moved to 90mm Nexties tubeless and had tyre contact when in 1st so went down to 4″ on the rear.

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Sounds good. What’s the ‘link’ refer to on the Zee mech?

    *Edit: just seen reference to GoatLink elsewhere so assume it’s this. They look a groovy little gadget, are they needed for an 11-42 set up though?

    fr0sty125
    Free Member

    Currently running

    Saint Shifter 10spd
    M8000 Mech 11spd
    Sunrace MS3 11-42 10spd
    Superstart NW

    slimjim78
    Free Member

    Ok, was fed up pondering so have committed. Decided not to risk chainline with 1×11, so have ordered MX3/Saint/Zee with Superstar 30t NW.
    Will probably pick up a Sram chain to complete the set up, possibly a goatlink in the future if it seems necessary.

    Will report back with findings for anyone that’s interested once it’s had a good testing.

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