6079smithw – Member
GrahamS – Member
I’ve spoken to my contact at Section 5 and he gave me a couple of surveillance stills.
6079smithw looks nothing like kaesae
Cyberbullying is a crime.
Who moderates this forum? I would like a word.

It’s OK they already know, cause they are watching us.

You might also want to pop a wanted ad out for a sense of humour…

Cyberbullying is a crime.

Only if you’re American.

Who moderates this forum? I would like a word.

I can’t possibly imagine.

There’s a “report post” link under every comment which will bring it to the attention of the volunteer moderation team. I initially ignored Graham’s post as I assumed it was a random image off the Internet posted for comedy value; if it’s not then I’m happy to delete it for the sake of an easy life. This will happen faster if you report it and detail your objection.

On reflection,

I’ve edited the post.

Ok thanks Cougar

Back to the non-personal critiquing of responses to the thread topic.

Homeopathy shouldn’t work because diluting things loads means there’s virtually nothing left, and the idea of something being more effective the more diluted it gets sounds mental. And it reminds me of one of Pratchett’s funny descriptions of Rincewind being outnumbered in a Discworld novel – something like “homeopathic warfare”.

See – I do get it.

But there are people other than me out there who say it works and also there are people far more qualified than I am who will say it works beyond placebo effect.

Now, let’s say you can suspend your belief and temporarily go along with the idea that homeopathy works and works beyond the placebo effect.
For it to work it would have to involve some kind of principle or process hitherto unknown to the scientific community at large and/or at odds with what we know so far.

We can agree with that right?

If it could be demonstrated that water has memory, that would mean the basis for homeopathy not working would have to be re-thought at least, shirley
http://themindunleashed.org/2013/07/new-research-supports-theory-that-water.html

But there are people other than me out there who say it works and also there are people far more qualified than I am who will say it works beyond placebo effect.

Yes, along with people who think the world was created in 7 days, dinosaur fossils were planted to trick us, climate change is a complete scam and many other things. What they all have in common is that the vast majority of research on the subjects appears to disprove them completely. Same with Homeopathy, the reviews of the very limited testing show that at most there is a good coincidence between taking something and consequences. At worst it shows a blatant manipulation of the numbers.

Homeopathy shouldn’t work because diluting things loads means there’s virtually nothing left, and the idea of something being more effective the more diluted it gets sounds mental.

Not to me. The none homeopathic drugs I give are diluted some as much 1:10,000 they work as well and not because an evil corporation tells me they do either.

I’ve had homeopathic fans who have said they don’t want anything for the pain as they’ve had the diluted water, they’ve sat there in agony. Once I’ve offered them a guarantee that I can take that away they soon give up and accept the pharmaceutical drug, I wonder if they then give up all together once they’ve tried the pain relief.

If it could be demonstrated that water has memory, that would mean the basis for homeopathy not working would have to be re-thought at least, shirley

No, it wouldn’t. Homeopathic treatments would have to work before the basis for the statement “homeopathy doesn’t work” would have to be rethought.

If water has a memory surely given it’s central role in life on earth the water cycle and the age of the planet. Then all water molecules in existence will already have bumped into all active homeopathic compounds so tap water will in effect be a homeopathic cure all and we should not waste our time and money on the commercial version.

He shoots. He scores.

If water picks up the imprint of whatever it is in contact with then as soon as it touches your body it picks up the memory of you. Hey presto, homeopathic auto-immunedisease.

And as water is just 2 hydroxyl groups back to back, the same as is found in alcohols, it could explain why alcohol makes you lose your memory. The watery bit steals it.

6079smithw – Member
But there are people other than me out there who say it works and also there are people far more qualified than I am who will say it works beyond placebo effect.

Like the woman in that guardian link you posted who selectively quoted a report to make it look like that was the conclusion?

Didn’t Hitler get started by not allowing anybody to hold views different to his own.

Ramsey wins!

A completely natural Godwin.

Just beautiful.

And as water is just 2 hydroxyl groups back to back, the same as is found in alcohols, it could explain why alcohol makes you lose your memory. The watery bit steals it.

*applauds*

It’s getting pretty rare these days to see one in the wild rather than in captivity. You’re quite right though, it’s a beautiful sight and well worth the wait.

I think they should shut the internet down for the day, there’s nothing left to be done.

Besides, I thought Hitler got started by losing a testicle and it being displayed in a museum over here and him being really peeved about that and then going off his head a bit and declaring war on us and then shooting himself on a golf course in the sand bunker.

Or something.

Cyberbullying is a crime.

I’m sorry if that image made you feel bullied 6079smithw – that was not my intention. Like some others, I thought you might be kaesae returning under a different name, as you have similar views and posting styles.

A quick google suggested that you clearly weren’t him, so I posted that “surveillance image” of you simply as a jokey way to refute it.

No offence or bullying was intended. I’m sorry if you felt it was. 😳

Back to the non-personal critiquing of responses to the thread topic.

Okay. Unless a lot of details are missing then even to a non-scientist such as myself this “experimental evidence of water-memory” which you posted earlier has some fairly enormous holes in the experimental technique:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILSyt_Hhbjg[/video]

So the drop “structure” looked different amongst the group, but was similar for each experimenter. Okay.

Did each experimenter use one or multiple droppers? One or multiple water sources? One or multiple sample plates? Did they make all experimenters drop from exactly the same height? Did they try sharing sample plates, water or droppers?

there are people other than me out there who say it works

There are plenty of people who say all manner of things. This does not make any of them any more correct.

and also there are people far more qualified than I am who will say it works beyond placebo effect.

Define “qualified.” There are plenty of people with a vested interest in saying it works, saying it works. Be that the ones making money, the ones who want to save face after wasting money on it, and the ones like yourself who seem to just desperately want to believe in something. It’s not a great shock to expect that a “qualified” homeopath is going to tell you how great homeopathy is.

Now, let’s say you can suspend your belief and temporarily go along with the idea that homeopathy works and works beyond the placebo effect.
For it to work it would have to involve some kind of principle or process hitherto unknown to the scientific community at large and/or at odds with what we know so far.

You’ve got the cart before the horse here. You’re right that for it to work beyond placebo it would have to be some mechanism that we’ve not isolated yet, but how it works is a secondary concern to if it works. The claimed mechanism is not the showstopper from a scientific perspective (it just makes it extremely unlikely); the problem is that irrespective of how it might or might not work, it doesn’t. Homeopathy does not stand up to double-blind trials beyond placebo. It’s that simple.

Whether water has a memory, whether it’s the work of Jesus, whether it’s innate alien technology or whether it’s hitherto undiscovered nanobots, none of this matters, because, fundamentally, it does not work. So investigating how it works is an exercise in futility.

—

If water has a memory surely given it’s central role in life on earth the water cycle and the age of the planet. Then all water molecules in existence will already have bumped into all active homeopathic compounds so tap water will in effect be a homeopathic cure all and we should not waste our time and money on the commercial version.

Ah, but, you’ve not shaken it in a special way.

For it to work it would have to involve some kind of principle or process hitherto unknown to the scientific community at large and/or at odds with what we know so far.

We can agree with that right?

Yes. Well actually, hell no. You can’t make something true by saying “It’s not true, but lets say it’s true and that it’s actually unverifiable or proven to be not true because we don’t know enough of that pesky science stuff to find out that it’s true”. Your assertion holds true for pretty any belief held which is unverifiable and is a cheap get-out clause for people who don’t want to acknowledge reality.

If I said fairies and ogres and trolls ( 😆 ) were real but science hadn’t discovered them yet, I’d be rightly cast as a mentalist.

So what you’re saying is that it’s true that scientists haven’t proven that fairies don’t exist? In a thousand years of scientific inquiry, not one of them has succeeded in proving that fairies are made up? I think that speaks for itself…

this thread is still going?

pass the biscuits, I’ve got a fresh mug of tea

I’ve got a fresh mug of tea

You don’t want tea. You want a mug of water that remembers tea.

So what you’re saying is that it’s true that scientists haven’t proven that fairies don’t exist?

No. I’m saying that despite science saying they DON’T exist, my belief that they do means that there’s just something at work that science doesn’t understand therefore it’s normal they haven’t found fairies yet. Actually, given the thread, lets spell that as faeries.

Science doesn’t say they don’t exist. Science says that we’ve never seen any evidence that they exist or anything tangible that actually suggests that they might exist. If something tangible came along (like a video of fairies that could be shown not to have been faked) then science would start coming up with theories about how that could be and then try and prove or disprove those theories.

Homeopathy has never been shown to work beyond placebo so there is nothing to try and prove and it is reasonable to say that it doesn’t work.

On a serious note here…
I just had a glass of water, which tasted suspiciously like Cameron Diaz’s urine.
Interestingly, there’s likely to be more of Cameron Diaz’s urine in a glass of tap water, than there is to be any ‘active’ substance in a single dosing of 100c homoeopathic ‘medicine’.

Not sure if I feel sick. or aroused.

DrP

(thinking about it, there’s likely to be an equal mix of Ms Diaz’s urine as there is of Binner’s urine, so it’s definitely sick i feel…)

tasted suspiciously like Cameron Diaz’s urine.

not a comparison I’d feel qualified to make, tbh.

did you run out of test sticks when testing her wee for high sugar levels?

I just had a glass of water, which tasted suspiciously like Cameron Diaz’s urine.

How do you know….?

How do you know what I know….?!

DrP

How do you know what I know….?!

There’s a clue in your forum name, after the ‘Dr’ bit… 😉

If I said fairies and ogres and trolls ( ) were real but science hadn’t discovered them yet, I’d be rightly cast as a mentalist.

Oh there’s Definitely trolls.

You don’t want tea. You want a mug of water that remembers tea.

.
You should go round to my Nan’s house.

She makes tea that would make 100c Homeopathic dilution look “super concentrated”

I remember having a biscuit.

Sadly, that’s not satisfying enough, I shall have to find an undiluted biscuit to increase my biscuit concentration levels.

Surely tea is only tea if it meets ISO3103:1980?

There are very simple double-blind tests that can be done to see whether homeopathy works. They have been. It doesn’t.

Oh hush. There you go with your science and facts and stuff. I heard from a bloke in the pub that his mate’s aunt thought it was pretty good so that’s all the scientific proof I need to start to rubbish conventional medicine and start visiting snake-oil salesmen

you’ve not shaken it in a special way.

So that is how you go the mod gig then 😉

Sorry for the hijack, but I’ve just taken a load of homeopathic medicine by mistake. Should I induce vomiting and call an ambulance?

You should drink lots of water to dilute it. Oh, hang on…