Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • Being Outsourced, experience of TUPE?
  • z1ppy
    Full Member

    Anyone got experiences of this?
    Started a thread about the outsourcing company yesterday but it was suggested to start a new one about this specifically…

    Very pi$$ed about it, as this was my first permanent job after a long stint of contracting with no job security (which I hated) & crap pay (non-specific skill set – my own fault).
    Though obviously I'm supposedly guaranteed a job with the same pay and conditions, I can't see them maintaining my agreement for hours when working away from my 'home' site. My current manager specified how he expected this to work when I was taken on full time after beinng a contractor with them for a while, but I don't have this in writing so can't guarantee it will be honoured & do not want to start working 12+ days again (when inc driving).

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Can I just jump in quickly here and say join a union 🙂

    Even if you have nothing in writing specifying things such as an agreement over hours if you have been working for a while in that pattern then it becomes "custom and practice" and thus enforceable as if it were part of your contract.

    Actually defending it will be harder of course – and dependent on many factors including how much of a pain in the backside you are prepared to be.

    Tuc website will have good advice on it about TUPE

    ourmaninthenorth
    Full Member

    Suggest:

    1. You ask for written confirmaiton of this particualr variation to your empoloyment terms; and

    2. Raise this as part of the consultation (wheter individually, or collectively).

    The idea of TUPE is simple: to protect employment by transferring your existing employment rights. However, these rights do not transfer as they are and remain the same forever. Over time, they may be amended and changed to harmonise them with the rights of existing employees of your new employer. The key is to understand this as it takes place, and also to ensure that it is still done within the confrines of the law.

    Good luck.

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    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Good advice there

    Pigface
    Free Member

    I know people who were TUPEd and were very happy about it. They were then brought back in house even more happy as they got re graded and payed more and now have been TUPEd again. Hey thats the civil service for you. Bonkers.

    z1ppy
    Full Member

    PF, I'd love to believe that it will be a happy experience, but I can't see how my dept can be made more cost effective without shedding numbers, and being as were stripped to the bone anyway, how can they do that?

    Out sourcing has already happened here once before (pre me joining the company), you'd think that with this in hindsight, and the fact that they wasted millions a couple of years back investigating outsourcing (all of IT) only to find the outsourcing company could not provide anything like the service already provided internally.
    So they done the dirty and just picked on one specific IT dept, rather than IT as a whole.

    Cheers for the advice above, not going to jump ship straight away, but am not interested in working 12/14hr days again (too old).

    Junkyard
    Free Member
    nockmeister
    Free Member

    'Business needs' that little statement makes ur contract toilet paper…

    uplink
    Free Member

    I've been TUPE'd 3 times now

    The harmonisation of the Ts&Cs within the new companies hasn't been too bad IME
    Some of the changes were better, some were worse but on the whole not drastic

    freddyg
    Free Member

    I was TUPE'd to CSC in 2003. Nockmeister's statement above is spot on. We were told to sign a new contract or leave, all in all a very unpleasant experience.

    However, colleague's who had TUPE'd in from other accounts had an altogether more pleasant experience – so I guess it can be luck of the draw.

    I hope all goes well.

    DT78
    Free Member

    I mentioned on your previous thread that I left just before being Tupe'd to one of the big Indian outsourcing companies. In the 4 years since they have got rid of all bar a few uk staff. One of mates thinks the only reason he is kept on is due to doing excessive (unpaid) overtime. There was also alot of complaints about pension provisions being 'tweaked'.

    All in all my experience was pretty bad, basically it felt like my company tupe'd the IT dept out so it didn't have to do the dirty work of making people redundant/force them to leave.

    snowslave
    Full Member

    I've been tupe'd 4 times. It's great in terms of it makes your CV look more interesting and you might learn new ways of working/skills without having to move desks, let alone apply for new jobs. You may find you have new opportunities even.

    None of the times it happened to me was it part of a big jobs cut exercise.

    I'm not for one minute saying you've nowt to worry about, but it's not always the end of the world.

    markgraylish
    Free Member

    I was TUPE'd from the civil service to EDS in 2001 (I think). Can't say I noticed much difference at first but later, within EDS, I had much more opportunity to work on other accounts when the civil service work started to dry up. So I guess it kept me in work a lot longer.
    I was managing some contractors at the time and I know some of them were more than happy to switch to permies (with a better salary than they were expecting!)
    I've since left EDS, who have now been taken over by HP, so I have no idea how things are now…

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    please dont listen to all the horror stories above please read the guide …some of the claims on here are illegal
    This comes up on here fairly often and people either confuse a takeover (someone buys the company) with TUPE – someone takes over what your company does – they are not the same.

    1.Broadly speaking the point of TUPE is to protect the continuity of service and the terms and conditions of the employee. You transfer with the exact same T & C and contract. The exception being if they want to improve them. There are also exceptions if the original business is insolvent
    2. you have more rights to sacking under TUPE than without it – they need to prove an ETO to make you redundant. you do not need to prove there was NOT one. If they sack you as a DIRECT result of the transfer it is AUTOMATICALLY illegal.
    2.Economic technical or Organisatuon [ETO}- this is too complex to explain here but does provide exemptions – generally affecting support staff /managers but it can vary. – HARMONISING OF WAGES TO THE NEW COMPANY IS NOT A ETO

    Please just read the guide ..

    http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf

    Coyote
    Free Member

    Make sure you get first dibs on the lube.

    I went through TUPE some years ago. After about six months the pressure started to switch over to the new companies T&Cs. After about 12 months the cuts started. Staff are TUPE'd out of a business for a reason, to save money. The new employer also has to make money and their business model probably* factors in utilisation of synergies after an appropriate honeymoon period. So, they will look at how they can merge your functions with stuff they already have in-house.

    My advice, start doing research on the new company now. Look for opportunities there. You do have a reasonable amount of protection but remember, TUPE is not an act of charity. To most out-sourcers it is a necessary evil. Sorry if this seems a little downbeat but if you are proactive rather than await the inevitable then you should be OK.
    .

    Coyote
    Free Member

    Double-post.

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