So… I work for a FTSE 100 insurance company. I have the option of redundancy, and have a potential opportunity to go into consultancy.

Who’s done it? Advantages/disadvantages? Miss ‘ordinary’ work, or best choice you ever made?

A former boss has tapped me up, the organisation he’s with (with whom I could also be soon) are quite large, I’m not 100% sure if they’re like a agency, who take a cut of your day rate, or if you’re actually salaried from them. My former boss has spoken of ‘day rates’, so I think it may be the former. Is that normal? Question for them, I know.

At the same time, I’ve found a really decent looking job internally which I stand a reasonable chance of getting. Forfeit my redundancy pay (for now!), but that’s not a life changing sum of money, and I like the work/life balance where I am (flexible working hours, 37 days leave etc), as well as the people.

I’m 28, role is analytical type stuff, consultancy likely to still be in insurance, but obviously moving around a bit more. Current salary is good, but not incredible, lots of opportunities where I am, but always small incremental improvements, jumping ship is likely to yield a bigger increase than I’ll get staying put, and seems to be the significant draw of consulting.

Jumping the gun somewhat, but I’m meeting the head of the consultancy firm on Monday and trying to get a better idea of what it may actually entail…

Company names hidden to protect the innocent!

is it primary insurance market or reinsurance?

Primary

Any role with the word consultant in it is a licence to print money

Go for it

Have a look at the reinsurance sector – risk analysis & catastrophe modelling jobs.
They are well paid and an insurance background will be very useful, if you are highly numerate and want to work in London then you’ve got a good chance

Don’t want to work in London per se, but accept it’s where the jobs are 😉

Re is an interesting shout, not something I’ve thought of.

you need to work out if you will be a salaried employee of the consultancy or effectively a contractor.

Salaried employee = paid holidays, sick pay, pension, notice period etc, if they cant find you any work, they will keep you on the bench for a while before they get rid of you
contractor = none of the above, but should be a higher day rate. But if theres no work, you’ll be gone immediately, and the permie consultants will get the best postings.

Consultant usually means travel wherever you’re told to travel, so If you’re not happy with being away from home for a lot of the week, its probably not the role for you. You will also need to be happy working with uncertainties, and vagueness, ie without clear direction.

Yes, that first point is key in my mind Julian, as it also has a huge bearing on requisite salary and what not. Like I say, in chatting to my boss he’s always talked “day rate”, which makes me think you’re a contractor. But I could be wrong.

Consultancy plus side – you are seldom bored, opportunities and training are excellent, money is very good, you get a lot of responsibility fairly early on
Consultancy down side – long to ridiculously long hours, high pressure environment, a lot of admin, risk, legal, appraisal stuff, you may not have time to ride your bike. You are a cog in a machine.
Saying all that, if you have a decent degree and the right experience, I would be happy to split my “finders” fee with you if you got a job where I am….you used to sell me tubes at BeyondMTB (i think) and so I think we could be in with a shout 🙂

I sold a lot of people tubes at Beyond (and still do very occasionally!), so it’s very likely indeed you were among them, got me wondering who you are now, as your profile is giving much away!

I don’t need a third option right now though, not that I actually have any options, let’s revisit this in a week or so!

jools182 – Member
Any role with the word consultant in it is a licence to print money

Go for it
That sort of consultancy requires contacts and a good reputation, if you have that at 28 go for it!
Technically I’m a consultant these days but you only eat well when you work, when it’s quiet you don’t work so unless you have a good method of finding work it’s not all good.

What do you mean by consultancy? I might be sounding like I’m being awkward, but its a word applied by people with no idea what it means these days. It’s become like engineer in its devalued sense.

9 times out of 10 it means contractor who worked in the business. Look at the number of “IT Consultants” that do support only, it can be a generic term and with foolish buyers a complete waste of time for the buying company, hence the bad rep.

Will you be doing advisory generally or staff augmentation? Strategy, procedural, governance etc. Many options out there so find out what they mean.

Be very careful if they are trying to sell smart man consultancy without a clear repeatable methodology or transparent sales process, otherwise it’s looking at you being a team of contractors, which is fine as long as you know that’s what you’re signing up for

Just because he mentioned day rate doesn’t mean you are not salaried, it may just be the client side day rate…

I looked into consultancy vs perm vs contract last year. I came to the conclusion if you have a decent reputation and are good at your role and interviews etc… Then there isn’t much point in joining a consultancy, who in effect are just body shopping you out and charging a hefty markup. You also have more control over who you work for. If you are just starting out then maybe you’ll need a consultancy on your cv to help (if it is a good one) and the training / working with others.

Also depends on your life stage, family. I’ve worked with a mobility clause in my contract and the novelty wore off quickly after 6 months I just wanted to spend more than 3 nights a row in my own bed.

That sort of consultancy requires contacts and a good reputation, if you have that at 28 go for it!
Technically I’m a consultant these days but you only eat well when you work, when it’s quiet you don’t work so unless you have a good method of finding work it’s not all good.

I believe that’s the role of the organisation, they’ll place you, and I think will pay you a day rate (having no doubt negotiated significantly more, so they get their cut). I’ve done quite well re connections frankly, a couple of lucky appointments, talent programs etc, and a lot of former colleagues who’ve gone elsewhere in the industry!

There is definitely the potential to earn pretty obscene amounts of money, but I imagine life would need to be put on hold for the duration…

Bob – those are my concerns, contractor/consultant are used synonymously, and I don’t honestly know the exact set up at the moment. Either way it seems to be a case of “potential to earn lots, hard work, less certainty”. Which is fine, I think…

DT78- those were my thoughts, I guess the middle man firm do some of the leg work in exchange for some of the cash!

Would you be consulting for this company or through it? Sounds like they plan to pimp you out. If you end up salaried to them and they sell you out at a day rate then you can end up getting the worst bits of being a permie and a contractor! Definitely find out what the deal is there.

Contracting through them ie pimping, which is my worry, as you say that you end up with the worst of both worlds.

I believe you’re paid a day rate, but not certain.

Sounds much like my situation. Mostly I contract to suppliers who mostly pimp me out to operators, taking their cut along the way. Can be fun, can be frustrating. It surprises me sometimes what I’m sold as an “expert” in. Need to be able to pick things up pretty quickly. It’s good not being a permie as I can always say no, but then it’s tough to turn down work.

+1 for good connections. Been doing this for about 8 years now and I’ve not had to go looking for work yet.

Re mobility. There is some of that, mostly client site visits but rarely more than a day or two. Mostly I state that I’ll be based from my office (i.e. home) which is great for me and I probably couldn’t do as a permie. With two small kids that’s been a big plus.

Consultancy plus side – you are seldom bored, opportunities and training are excellent, money is very good, you get a lot of responsibility fairly early on
Consultancy down side – long to ridiculously long hours, high pressure environment, a lot of admin, risk, legal, appraisal stuff, you may not have time to ride your bike. You are a cog in a machine.
Saying all that, if you have a decent degree and the right experience, I would be happy to split my “finders” fee with you if you got a job where I am….you used to sell me tubes at BeyondMTB (i think) and so I think we could be in with a shout

NJEE I was a consultant for 20 years until I changed jobs 2 years ago. The above is true but Is there a catch – would you earn a flat salary, does it have performance incentives? I’m not going to reveal too much on here but being of long standing reputation and knowledge has seem me both manage a lifestyle balance 90% of the time with excellent pay and benefits in my current role without the hard work and consulting effort. There’s is a lot of hard work don’t get me wrong. As you know I have a family now and the Consultimg would have seen me defer their time, but doing pre family has afforded me good opportunity.

Be wary of contributory factors vs performance, how any utilisation bonus is calculated. For instance, I was charged out at (not real but close to) £900 -£1300 a day, but even being well paid only saw a fraction of that. Going more freelance and you inherit the risk of no work to,offset it. Reputation and ability is king.

Are you on linked in? I’ll invite you and you’ll get what I’m on about.

Certainly am, cheers Kryton!

I can’t find you – no pic? I’m there look for my real name. My profile description will explain what I’ve summarised.

In effect the consultancy / pimp is taking responsibility for finding you work using their contacts and most likely charging you out at a minimum of 100% markup. The offer I had would have meant an income just in 6 figures, but charged out at 1600 a day. Big earning potential, but they take their pound of flesh. For me, I’m confident I don’t need the services of a consultancy to find me work and prefer to pick my own roles / companies.

As it was I chose to remain in perm as my first child is on the way, so being away from home and 10+ hour days wasn’t sustainable. Money isn’t everything.

I’m in a consultancy role in the architecture team of a massive global IT consultancy. You can tend to get a little confused always hearing about billables, fees, day rates, etc. It’s not meant to be so, it’s just that’s how they measure income and it has such a bearing on the performance of the business, because it is the business, it’s always at the front of people’s minds.

I’m employed solely by this company as a permanent employee with all the usual rights and benefits that gives. I get charged out to our customers in a variety of ways, either on a straight day-rate for a body-shopping job (rare), or as part of a larger project (normal). My performance is rated on how many days a year ‘I’ bill to clients, even though I can only exert a small amount of influence in that area. If I’m on the bench, then the company finds me something to do, or I can use the time for training as the company’s expense.

Travel is a big part of the job, and there’s no getting away from that. You go where the client is. However, we have a strong work/life ethic wherever it’s possible so there is remote working, only 4 days a week on-site etc. We also have big global and uk coverage, which means there’s more likely to be someone near the client, reducing the travel. That said, I live in Birmingham, and my current client is London…

As above ‘consultancy’ is often confused with ‘contracting’, but it’s not the same thing. Consultancy in it’s truer form is providing specialist expertise to a variety of clients on a short- or medium- term basis. The employment mechanism for doing so is what can vary, from self-employed contractor, to agency, to full-on consultancy organisation like mine. Don’t be worried about asking the question of the new org, there are benefits and drawbacks to each of the forms as others have mentioned. I go with the latter type because I get a much better salary than the equivalent job ‘in industry’, but I have none of the risk of being a contractor. I get to see a variety of projects and industries, and so don’t get bored by working on the same stuff day-in, day-out.

What consultancy means varies a lot on the industry. In IT you can be a ‘consultant’ but really be working on a project for 4 years. There are smaller numbers of consultants who provide expertise on some specific product (like me). The former category end up travelling every week for years, the latter category might be travelling all the time, or 50%, or 20% – depends on the deal.

Personally I love being a consultant – it means I change projects a lot, so I get to come into a place, do something, then GTFO instead of rotting away waiting for retirement. No office politics.

However it might be more difficult for you depending on what you have to do. Sometimes people really resent consultants, if they are perceived to be coming in and telling them how to do their own jobs worse and being paid a shitload. However, some companies are really grateful because they are under pressure and under skilled, and you get them sorted and they are really pleased. That’s a pretty good feeling 🙂

Another plus – I’ve been biking all over the country whilst working, met cool people and ridden areas I’d never have gone to.

Consultancy in it’s truer form is providing specialist expertise to a variety of clients on a short- or medium- term basis.

ed. I go with the latter type because I get a much better salary than the equivalent job ‘in industry’, but I have none of the risk of being a contractor. I get to see a variety of projects and industries, and so don’t get bored by working on the same stuff day-in, day-out.

Is/was me, better than I described it.

There is also this documentary about dealing with work travel, best watched alone in a generic hotel room for most effect…

The former category end up travelling every week for years, the latter category might be travelling all the time, or 50%, or 20% – depends on the deal.

One of the good thing about being a consultant/contractor is the ability to negotiate that deal. Clients I have mostly don’t care about the detail provided the job gets done. I try and act as independently as possible and have an appropriate level of interaction with the client. Means most of the time I’m working from my office at home, which is nice.

I’ve been a perm at a consultancy hired out as a contractor. It’s great if you’re working for a good consultancy. You get some excellent clients on your CV, get to work on some interesting projects and can signal when you want out. It’s a short to medium term strategy unless you want to move up through the consultancy’s management, because you’ll never be financially well off as those whose jobs you’re doing.

I got out to work as a perm closer to home. Salary, work-life balance are much better. Some of my friends got out to go consult/contract and they earn a lot more. The successful ones say the trick is to not ramp up your lifestyle in line with the pay so you’re not reliant on working all year. Decent contracts in our industry last from a few months to a few years.

Part of me wishes I’d taken that route but it wasn’t an option financially. If you have it then take it. If you’re good at what you do and your industry is booming you can always go back to being perm with someone else. With contracts, a lot of times it’s not about hiring the best, but hiring the best available at the time. You have the option of being a contractor and feeling out the market while being well compensated. Can your current job offer you a similar opportunity to feel out your progress in the organisation?

I would also be a bit worried about your current workplace if they’re considering making someone as young as you redundant. What’s that all about?

There is also this documentary about dealing with work travel, best watched alone in a generic hotel room for most effect..

Yep, I sympathised with a lot in that film! I’ve been to loads of countries / cities and just seen the inside of airports, taxis, hotels and offices.

Any role with the word consultant in it is a licence to print money

Aye, the grass is always greener…

Yep, I sympathised with a lot in that film! I’ve been to loads of countries / cities and just seen the inside of airports, taxis, hotels and offices.

That’s why I took up running. Running kit always fits in a carry-on, and I can always find an hour to get out of the hotel/office and explore wherever I am. This has meant fantastic runs all over the place, from Arthur’s Seat, to the vineyards of Germany, to the parks of Sao Paulo, and the Arizona desert. All paid for by someone else.

Some interesting insights, thanks all. I’m not entirely sure it’s for me – commute isn’t great into London, and I like having a life outside of work. See how Monday goes…

I’m sure consultancy has a need but some of the stuff I see coming from consultants smells badly of snake oil. Either it’s so wrapped up in jargon that it’s effectively meaningless (although George Orwell argues in Politics and The English Language that this is deliberate confusion to disorientate you), or it just looks like commonsense and the obvious wrapped up to look like some great insight. If you like working with normal people in meaningful work you may or may not enjoy this kind of stuff…

I’m working with some people at the moment with a consultancy background and frankly I struggle to get any significant meaning from some of the slides they produce. The client loves it of course – but she has to, she’s paying a fortune for it! Personally it makes me feel really insecure – it’s hard to know quite what to say sometimes when there’s no real intellectual substance to stuff that everyone around you is declaring to be ‘great work’…

I’m working with some people at the moment with a consultancy background and frankly I struggle to get any significant meaning from some of the slides they produce. The client loves it of course – but she has to, she’s paying a fortune for it! Personally it makes me feel really insecure – it’s hard to know quite what to say sometimes when there’s no real intellectual substance to stuff that everyone around you is declaring to be ‘great work’…

Does seem very common, our ex CEO loved this sort of MBA BS, no one actually did anything or made any progress, but they had endless meetings discussing strategies on how someone (not them) might actually solve a problem. Suffice to say, we went into a heavy loss mode and he got booted out along with all the half-wit consultants…..

In some very good (bar related) discussions around consultants and consultancy it becomes most apparent that to avoid the BS and how much for what, you actually need to know what you want as a customer. If you are the

CEO loved this sort of MBA BS, no one actually did anything or made any progress, but they had endless meetings discussing strategies on how someone (not them) might actually solve a problem. Suffice to say, we went into a heavy loss mode and he got booted out along with all the half-wit consultants…..

You will easily find people who will come in and remove cash from your business for nothing real in return.

I’ve been consulting for years ( three seperate consultancies ) over the years from the very small niche to the tier 1 global players.
I like it, everyday is a different challenge, you and only you are responsible for work life balance. Think before you accept gig in a nightmare location. You’ll probably work with really good people, customers vary, really strong consultants can work in any team and get stuff done.

Yes you may meet resistance but your there to get a project done. If the client could do it themselves they would have done, so you need to add value and make it happen.

So, currently I’m a contractor. Working in similar discipline as a solution architect.

Rates wise, if you were on say 75k as a permie then contract rates of 75per hour is about right, similarly 45k would be about 45 per hour. 25k 25 ph.
Don’t spend it when it comes in you’ll need a war chest.

So sorting out workload balance, running is good. I live in the countryside and enjoy the city in the week. I have a wife and bijou potato. We face time for 10-15mins at tea time each night so he gets daddy time.

I used to take a road bike in the back of my Alfa. On this last role I’ve been restoring a classic car in the evening at a workshop near where I work. I’m away a few nights a week, but life it what you make it.

Good feedback, thanks all. I don’t want to put my entire life on hold, the odd long day is obviously fine, but daily 14 hour days aren’t, particularly with a 1hr45 commute each end of the day. Lots of money is great, but not having time to spend it isn’t so much…

Will go along tomorrow to meet the MD, see what sort of vibe I get from him!

When I had this decision I worked out my hourly rate based on hours worked and commuting. Factoring in benefits like leave and pension, permie came out top by quite a way, despite the numbers being very different. Does depend on your priorities, not sure 10 mins a night seeing my little one would be okay for me.

Good luck.