I promise to do my best
to be kind and helpful
and to love God

Seriously? It is 2016, why are they asking all kids to promise to love God?

No intention of making a big deal out of it as my lad doesn’t really care either way but really surprised they haven’t moved with the times.

Christian organisation in christianity shocker.

it’s not a government department

Is that the motto most use when scouting beaver?

Igmc

At least the Queens been taken out of it!

Christian organisation in christianity shocker.

Are they? I didn’t know that, I thought it was just the Boys’ Brigade.

I promise to do my best
to be kind and helpful
and to love God

Looks fine to me, 2016 or not.

Cubs / Scouts and I thought Beavers too all have non-theistic promises as well. I think. My kids just promise to love the dog. Works for them.

No-longer explicitly Christian –

The Scout Association in the United Kingdom is an open association. This means we are made up of Members of different faiths, including those with no faith, and identify ourselves with no one faith exclusively.

They’re not a branch of the church or owt but if you look at their constitution and history it’s got clear and unambiguous links to christian values, it’s always been part of the movement. They’re all inclusive and schizzle now, for sure, but you had prayers and oaths with God in when I was a cub.

I was in the cubs and scouts when I was younger. I loved the activities but hated the religious side. My brain automatically switched off at the mention of god.

They changed it a couple of years ago, so there’s the option of not including the god part.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/oct/08/scouts-pledge-welcomes-non-believers
https://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS322016.pdf

But it still includes the queen (for cubs or scouts, but not beavers).

variations to the Promise are permitted, and include one for atheist/humanist POVs

http://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS322016.pdf

To be kind and helpful and to love our world.

The emphasis would appear to be on some/any sort of spiritual development and guidance, if that’s your bag.

Personally Id prefer my boys swore allegiance to Twickenham 🙂

Hmm.

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scouting/rec.scouting.issues/section-11.html (“Q. What was Baden-Powell’s position on God and Religion in Scouting?”)

Though there’s no mention of Christianity or religion in their Wikipedia entry. There is this though,

“Duty to God” is a principle of Scouting, though it is applied differently in various countries.[46][47] The Boy Scouts of America (BSA) take a strong position, excluding atheists.[48] The Scout Association in the United Kingdom permits variations to its Promise, in order to accommodate different religious obligations.[49]

Is this where we’re getting “Christian organisation” from, the US implementation?

More interestingly, and in answer to the OP, it goes on to say,

in 2014, United Kingdom Scouts were given the choice of being able to make a variation of the Promise that replaced “duty to God” with “uphold our Scout values”

The Scout Promise has its own entry,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_Promise#United_Kingdom

Variations to the wording are allowed in order to accommodate those with “no affirmed faith” (from January 2014), of different religious obligations or national allegiances

So, the goddy bits are entirely optional. The question then I guess is really “why is the default opt-in rather than opt-out?”

(EDIT: Sorry for repetition of earlier posts, they all appeared whilst I was reading up on it)

you have to make the boy scout sign when you do the oath so it is easy to cross your fingers while doing it.

Is this where we’re getting “Christian organisation” from, the US implementation?

No it was always just a bit ‘Goddy’ when I were a lad, plus BearGrizzle, seems both the OP and I should have looked a bit deeper

No intention of making a big deal out of it

Seriously? It is 2016, why are they asking all kids to promise to love God?

#Fail

There are seven different versions of the promise available in Scouting so that kids/parents can find one that suits them.

Scouts is Christian in the same way that the UK is “Christian” – by accident rather than by design, and trying to get away from the old fashioned stereotypes.

Agree it is a bit ridiculous, but they do allow multiple variations of The Promise:

http://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS322016.pdf

Atheist Beavers get to promise to “To be kind and helpful and to love our world” – which seems pretty acceptable, though I reckon they should have just gone for the Bill and Ted’s promise really.

Certainly can’t remember it being Goddy when I went, think it was in the promise but that was it. Even as an athiest I really can’t see an issue with it even in 2016. Maybe next year though.

Scouts is Christian in the same way that the UK is “Christian” – by accident rather than by design, and trying to get away from the old fashioned stereotypes.

It’s absolutely by design, see the link I posted back there. ^^

You’re broadly right though, by the sounds of it it’s the UK’s tick-a-box passive “Christianity” observed by people who watch the carols on TV at Christmas, rather than indoctrination.

Our Scout group is attached to a local church, my wife’s Guide unit is attached to a different one. Other than a token presence at the Christmas service, and being able to use the churches for St Georges Day/Remembrance Parades and Thinking Day, the whole religion thing is quietly brushed under the table.

It’s Christian in the “do good things for other people”, as opposed to “be Christian or burn forever in hellfire”, which isn’t a bad place to position yourself in the current **** up world.

At least the current situation allows for atheists.

I seem to remember being told a while ago that they would take any religion, but you had to have one which seemed much more messed up.

Our Scout group is attached to a local church,

That was how mine was, was based in the Church hall and we attended church once a month. But honestly I don’t think anyone cared about god or not, it was just a thing you did, same as going to help at an OAPs home or whatever. It was a chore you accepted was part of it, but everyone went for the fun stuff. My patrol leader was banned from Belgium because of football hooliganism, yet was a model scout! Odd the double lives people lead.

We got around it by encouraging our lad to say

“and to love my god”

leaves it nicely ambiguous as to who or what your god maybe

At least the current situation allows for atheists.

You can’t be a leader if you’re an atheist.

You can’t be a leader if you’re an atheist.

I doubt Scouting – or Guiding – would be wanting that particular rule to be audited or enforced with any real vigour 😉

There’s a “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach taken, which means encouraging hypocritical behaviour. Hardly the ethical position you’d want for a Scout leader?

I seem to remember being told a while ago that they would take any religion, but you had to have one which seemed much more messed up.

That’s the case in the US, they don’t allow atheists. (I said this earlier also…)

Our areas awah with Beaver clubs. All thanks to volunteers aplenty. Friends live in a semi flashy part of Manchester and there’s a 6month waiting list for their one local club.

I don’t see a problem. It’s not rammed down their throats, they don’t even have a full grasp on the concept of God and my son goes to a c&e school that sings hymns.

Chill OP theres more positives than negitives

Agreed ^ the nasty republicans have got rid of the Queen. How very dare they? They will be letting grils in next and banning knives. And where’s Akela (sp ?) gone?

The title promised so much more 😉

There’s a “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach taken, which means encouraging hypocritical behaviour. Hardly the ethical position you’d want for a Scout leader?

One thing Scouting teaches is being pragmatic rather than dogmatic. It may sometimes be hypocritical, but I don’t think any of our leaders are card carrying church goers – enforce the rule, close the group, 73 kids aged 6-14 have lost a great opportunity.

And we dream of a 6 month waiting list – our Scout group and my daughters Guide units are pretty much on the waiting list from birth to get in. We turn away enough kids to run 2 units at each level, if we could get the volunteers to run it. But other units within our District are low in numbers in at least one of the age groups.

You can’t be a leader if you’re an atheist.

Not any more. I am hoping to get involved more and was worried about this. There were some headlines about it a year or two ago. I can’t find it but this is from the Scouts’ Equal Opportunities policy.

no person volunteering their services should receive less favourable treatment on the basis of, nor suffer disadvantage by reason of:

age;
class or socio-economic status;
ethnic origin, nationality (or statelessness) or race;
gender (including gender reassignment);
marital or civil partnership status;
sexual orientation;
disability (including mental or physical ability);
political belief;
pregnancy;
religion or belief (including the absence of belief).

It does, however state:

Note: Paedophilia is a bar to any involvement in the Scout Movement.

😯
I guess it’s as well to make it clear.

Nobeerinthefridge – Member
At least the Queens been taken out of it!

I’d be happy doing my duty to the Queen rather than a fictional religious character. Besides, makes you think you’re James Bond.

Personally Id prefer my boys swore allegiance to Twickenham

Those poor kids, I bet you make them gobto Sixways to watch “rugby” too… I’m calling social services.

Well said Spacey! Good to know there’s at least a few other parents who encourage lateral thinking and not blindly follow given definitions as the rule to end all rules!

Right, wrong, true, false, fact, fiction, black, white. Gotta know where we stand eh?! Perish the thought that we could make up our own realities 😉

Personally Id prefer my boys swore allegiance to Twickenham?

Don’t go. It’s a Christian organisation. It’s not rocket science. My sons free within reason to live his own life and learn his own mind and that includes faith. My opinion is my own in my own life not forced on others.

Not any more. I am hoping to get involved more and was worried about this. There were some headlines about it a year or two ago.

That’s good to hear.

I’m a beavers leader and also an atheist. All declared. Our group is a bit Goddy to be honest, I go to the church parades to show some support back as we get to use their hall for not much money. Bit of give and take and all that.

Well that was much ado about nothing. Turns out the promise they emailed out for him to learn was actually wrong, the promise they used instead was:

I promise to do my best
to be kind and helpful
and to love our world

Stand down, nothing to see here.

Well what the hell are we going to argue about now? FFS.

Yep that’s the “Humanist, atheist or no faith” variation of the promise (see the link on the previous page).