I’m not calling for the banning of them. They are already banned. There is a big sign up at the entrance that states “no cycling anywhere on the site”.

Even Analogue Andy, in his original post here, clearly makes this point.

Malcolm, your posts sound reasonable in themselves you’ll have to see this in the context that we hear unfounded allegations of cyclists causing harm/risk/AIDs to everyone including children on a regular basis and it’s pretty tiresome. I can’t see the youtube vids here but even if they show bad behaviour, I would suggest that’s not the norm and we could probably come up with videos of dog walkers letting their animals foul and causing damage, walkers going off piste, people vandalising and so on.

As has been said, show some evidence that there are acutally accidents happening or even real near missed (because perception of near misses is not the same as it there actually being near misses) and also answer the questions put to you (about you inaccurate claims about arrests, etc and also about keeping your own dogs on leads) and you will likely get a more constructive discussion.

I appreciate you taking the effort to come to this in a seemingly constructive manner but you need to be aware that you will be taken to task for being yet another fundamental bike hater unless you can show that your focus is not only on cyclists and that you’re working off fact rather than anecdote and opinion.

FWIW, I’m not a local. I’ve ridden the trails in question once. I don’t believe I killed, maimed or injured anyone. I don’t see any fundamental difference between this area and many many others where things work just fine without unnecessary intervention.

I think the first video is the most interesting – have a look where they meet the walkers at the end, no problem, everyone happy, smiling faces and courtesy all round

If we had examples of real conflict or problems then it would be a valid concern, however so far it seems to be ‘perception’ – you might like to have a look at Countryside agency CRN 32 which goes into this issue in some detail, but sums it up quite nicely with the comment that:

“In the main, route users accommodate others by changing their speed and pattern of travel: cyclists slow down, while walkers move in more of a straight line and speed up.The research found that, when people gather together to talk about conflict, they talk it up and their recollection of how many others they met while on the route escalates.Their perceptions of conflict were much higher than that actually experienced.”

None of the videos seem to support the ‘damaging the SSSI’ argument, in fact they’re riding on fairly established trails that appear to have been there for a long time.

The simple answer of course would be to put a waymarked and dedicated trail in, which would tend to focus riders away from areas of conservation importance and reduce the incidence of conflict with other users.

Flicked through those videos, but as they were pretty slow, I got bored.

Also- film of some cheerful bumblers from 2007, 2011, 2012 and 2013 doesn’t really work as evidence of hordes of thuggish inconsiderate mountain bikers from ‘this summer’ does it?

[T1000, as I described above, I own the Bath Mercury. It is the pilot of a series of online local newspapers in South West England. I own Techspeak Ltd which publishes the Bath Mercury. No mystery. I’m not sure what point you seek to make.]

It good that you’ve made that clear in this post, which is something your previous post didn’t do, I was curious as to why this had appeared on the Bath Mercury rather than in the Bath Cronicle

First video – carnage! those walkers went down like skittles. NOT.
People leaping for safety? no
Dogs run over? No
High speed riding? No
riders careering down 100ft cliffs. Sadly not.
Riding off-path? Nah. What kind of rider does that anyway? Everyone I know actively seeks out paths. And paths don’t appear out of nowhere, you know. They are lines worn by human (or animal) use.
Haven’t watched the others but if they are all as dull as that I don’t think I’ll bother.
This all sounds like some pet rant by some tuppenny wannabe politician who’s bought himself a newspaper so he can make his opinions and prejudices sound more important than anyone else’s.
I was born and grew up in Bath, btw. It was always full of people like him.

can’t see the 2nd one through my work’s proxy

the 3rd one

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIhfUELTUnE[/video]

3 people on MTBs in 2013. They stay on paths, although not the main path at the top, still an established path. They did not encounter anyone. Not one person.

Is it because they look like they are going fast?

Well there are a few things to say about that. First, I’ve seen enough of these to know that it is not nearly as fast as it looks. Second, don’t confuse going fast with not being able to stop in the space you can see.

Funnily enough YouTube recommends me this video:

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDVLXxg8Z6Y[/video]

Completely irresponsible and highly dangerous behavior at the Folly yet not a single mountain biker in sight.

Have you got any videos that contain actual evidence of irresponsible mountain biking?

Malcom, thanks for posting on here and opening up the debate. I have read your posts and can understand your perspective… If I have any thoughts for now, its to stop posting on here and meet with the OP somewhere convivial to talk it through (tea, cake, pan pipes, calming interior decor etc etc)…

Whatever information is presented here as has been mentioned in other posts, is well meaning but as often as not, will not actually produce positive action. Slugging it out in “I said , you said” style is almost certainly counter productive and divisive …. see the different interpretation of the videos for instance.

Meet with the OP, talk in through, agree a way forward the come back again with an update.

Just read the article again – nice how Avon’s wildlife trust manager is so concerned that someone might get hurt that he’s “left fallen trees across paths to disrupt routes”. Clearly this will improve safety.

I must be getting cynical in my old age, but this local politician & newspaper owner appears to be targetting a minority group in order to sell a few papers and buy a few votes

I did wonder that but let’s give him the benefit of the doubt for now, eh… Malcolm, show us that’s wrong…

I DON’T MIND SHARING THE PATHS WITH MOUNTAIN BIKERS.

So long as those mountain bikers are behaving responsibly, considerately and safely.

I’ve come across mountain bikers who do and I don’t have a problem with them.

I’ve come across mountain bikers who don’t and I do have a problem with them.you’re doing the typical outgroup thing, lashing out at the entire group due to the (alleged) actions of a few. It’s something cyclists see a lot on the roads aswell and has been said we’re getting a bit tired of it.

Together with the 20 odd years of use and our archaic messed up access laws it means a more progressive approach is needed, stamping your feet and demanding that mtbers just disappear is a futile attempt at tide turning.

I DON’T MIND SHARING THE PATHS WITH MOUNTAIN BIKERS.
So long as those mountain bikers are behaving responsibly, considerately and safely.

I’ve come across mountain bikers who do and I don’t have a problem with them.

I’ve come across mountain bikers who don’t and I do have a problem with them.

So why isn’t the article about misbehaving and inconsiderate mountain bikers (a minority)? It sounds like we are largely in agreement, but the article seems to contradict this.

The real story here is that the AWT are not allowing reasonable users access to the land when there is a long established tradition of responsible use causing little conflict and damage.

Let the mercury run that then.

Which is exactly what your videos – which you describe as typical of recent riding – show, so I’m confused. Given you’re happy with people riding like this, what is the problem?

It doesn’t seem to be going well, does it Mr Cupis? When I read the comments on the article you seem to have attracted support from a foaming USA conspiracy theorist and, er…yourself.
You’d think if it was such a problem many of the maimed walkers or their surviving relatives would be on voicing their support.

Reading between the lines

I am a Council candidate for a ward in the centre of Bath

What minority group can I whip up a frenzy about to enhance my prospects of being elected?

I’m big into fast cars and motorbikes

Roadies you are next 😉

Link – An occupier of premises owes a duty to another (not being his visitor) in respect of any such risk … if … he is aware of the danger or has reasonable grounds to believe that it exists

Avon Wildlife Trust’s Reserves Manager Joe Middleton: –
We have left fallen trees across paths to disrupt routes

As alluded to above and in the link, I wonder what AWT’s reasonable level of protection is? Ratcliff sets a pretty high standard.

If you look at why it’s a SSSI…

Brown’s Folly is a nationally important wintering roost for bats and supports a calcareous grassland community with a restricted distribution in England. Semi-natural broadleaved woodland and calcareous scrub with a flora and fauna of local interest, also occur.

Don’t ride in the caves people, don’t disturb the bats.

/puts batbike away.

Brown’s Folly is a nationally important wintering roost for bats and supports a calcareous grassland community with a restricted distribution in England. Semi-natural broadleaved woodland and calcareous scrub with a flora and fauna of local interest, also occur.

Don’t ride in the caves people, don’t disturb the bats.

Plus the grassland is fenced off and everyone I know stays clear.

Despite people setting bonfires and leaving empty beer cans.

Malcolm! Have you been trawling the internet looking for quotes you can use for your next Bath Mercury article / party-political mouthpiece? 😆

Look, I know that Analogue Andy desperately wants to depict me as some hate-filled, bicycle bashing harbinger of evil, but the truth is completely different.

I don’t need to depict you as one Malcolm, you do a very good job of that yourself, even if you do come here pretending that you’re an “ex” mountain biker. (That did make me chuckle!)

Yes, STW, I’m afraid Malcolm has lots of ‘form’ it’s not just the aforementioned Brown’s Folly article. He and his Tory Chums poor scorn on any form of cycling and any money that’s spent to encourage or support it.

For some misguided reason he sees that as a vote winner..

Thank you to everyone who’s responded to the detailed comments he’s made regards the status of these woods and the claimed ‘damage’ ‘danger’ and ‘illegality’ of us riding there (Damage = this is a once industrial landscape, it has been commercially logged, via an access road, fencing has been erected across the site and yes, shock of all horrors people actually use them – even hiking boots cause “damage” as we all know. “Danger” – as has been said, I’ve been riding there for more than 30 years, in groups and solo, and walking and caving there for far longer (the hill is riddled with stone mines). I’ve NEVER seen anyone endanger anyone (except themselves occasionally!). Regards the “illegality” – yes there is no legal right of way for bikes through the woods – odd that given the stone was once dragged out by pit ponies. That’s the nature of access rights in this country – hit and miss, designed a century ago when MTBs didn’t exist..

I’ll come back to some of Mr Cupis’ comments later – in the meantime Daisy and Mary (both keen MTBers) want their tea!

If you look at why it’s a SSSI…

Brown’s Folly is a nationally important wintering roost for bats and supports a calcareous grassland community with a restricted distribution in England. Semi-natural broadleaved woodland and calcareous scrub with a flora and fauna of local interest, also occur.

Don’t ride in the caves people, don’t disturb the bats.

Although interestingly, the caves and old mines are maintained by local cavers, there is still (controlled) public access with voluntary restrictions in place during bat hibernation season and the bat population seems to be thriving; that’s outside of any control by Avon Wildlife Trust.

So if the cavers, public and bats can all get on fine I don’t see why MTBers and walkers can’t.

Nice to see that that Mike Vandeman is still sitting at his computer frantically googling for MTB stories that he can wade into. Maybe he’s aiming for the title of longest-serving internet troll. It can go up there on his wall along with his conviction of assaulting a mountain biker…

I found this article where Malcolm explains how much he loves bicycles
http://www.bathmercury.com/anger-grows-undemocratic-seven-dials-scheme/

😐 politics = make a mess of everything, blame someone else,

I really do not get where this seemingly inbred hatred of cyclists in the UK comes from. I have lived in Germany, where pedestrians, cyclists & drivers co exist well (despite it being enshrined in law) with families out riding on Sundays.
I am a walker, dog walker, Mountain Biker & driver and find being polite & courteous to other trail/road users goes a long way (It is a shame a minority though don’t reciprocate) whatever mode of transport or the legality of using a trail is. We should have the same Right to Roam laws as they have in Scotland in England & Wales.
People should be encouraged to get out into the outdoors and take exercise, not have NIMBY obstacles thrown in their way. This would lead to a reduction in a burden on the NHS.
Having lived just outside Bath for a few years, the town is a pain in the @rse to drive & park, you would have thought that more cycling & walking and the resulting reduction in congestion & pollution would be welcomed.
We could also do with some INTEGRITY instilled into politicians, councillors & journalists, instead of trying slimey underhand, pitch fork mentality scaremongering tactics, to further their own careers.

Oh well done aracer

those unwilling or unable to comply with their ruthless and pathological contempt for what people actually need or want to do.”

Dont worry he is not talking about helping cyclists there

The truth is that bikes are ridden by a tiny minority of people – about two per cent of journeys made nationally are by bicycle – and are completely irrelevant as a practical transport proposition for the vast majority of people who just want to be left alone to get on with busy and complicated lives.

We could also do with some INTEGRITY instilled into politicians, councillors & journalists, instead of trying slimey underhand, pitch fork mentality scaremongering tactics, to further their own careers.

^This.

I’m heartily sick of politicians of all parties because of this. I despair, I really do. The newspaper hacks aren’t far behind in my estimation either.

Sadly this does seem like yet another example of two faced lying politicians. I doubt Malcolm will be back now…

On the positive though the stw stereotype er older rider actually means that these days we’re much better at organising resistance to this sort of thing. It’s easy to sideline yoof bmxers. Much harder to do the same with mtbers who are part of the establishment.

I’m relatively new to mountain biking and was looking at this forum to find out more about local areas for a ride. This thread has inspired me to sign up to the forum!

Having read mcupis’ article and comments I would draw the conclusion that he really isn’t worth bothering about. A quick google of his name comes up with some interesting stuff. He appears to spend a lot of time on the internet spreading his “views” which are often focussed on anti-cycling.

He quotes in his earlier post:

I do not hate bicycles, I love bicycles. I do not resent you lot, I envy you.

. That is nice of him, he is our friend:)

However, this is what he says on other forums:

Welcome to Bristol. But only if you are on a bicycle. Otherwise hand over your wallet and ****** off.

He seems to have a chip on his shoulder about safety, free speech, his right to drive motorbikes and cars and parking ….(interesting life!). A few other quotes from mcupis below:

As a result people are starting to feel that cycling campaigners are devious, mistrustful and unreliable. If, as you say, cycling is less dangerous than motorcycling, as a motorcyclist can I ask where my motorcycle lanes and priority measures are?

And another:

Dominic T is a typical extreme lefty. He isn’t interested in what people want, need or aspire to. He couldn’t care less about their circumstances. He just wants to force everybody to live how he wants them to live. Forget democracy, he knows he is right and that is all that matters to him.

A bit hypocritical perhaps?

And when it comes to suggesting that his 4×4 recreation should be restricted he says this:

But the number of legal byways is being heavily reduced after campaigning from militant hikers and mountain bikers. Should I just accept that I should be banned from the countryside because I have no other way of accessing it or should I choose to ignore the closures and use them illegally?

Based on this my conclusion is the he comes across as a bit of a sad person with some “issues”. There is probably a psychological term for these issues so we shouldn’t be too hard on him.

Better to ignore him, go out for a bike ride, get muddy and enjoy the outdoors…

aracer – Member

> mcupis » I do not hate bicycles, I love bicycles.

I found this article where Malcolm explains how much he loves bicycles
http://www.bathmercury.com/anger-grows-undemocratic-seven-dials-scheme/

Yes, thanks, and SpecUSUK, there’s loads of brilliant Malcolm Quotes

He posts on Twitter as @blokeinbath @bathmercury and @kingsmeadbath (plus others?)

Unbelievable. Try to positively engage with people and end up being targeted for a personal smear campaign backed up with quotes out of context.

I campaign against all illegal use of the countryside and rights of way.

In context the point I was making above was that closing byways to motor vehicles only affects people who are inclined to obey the law. Illegal off-roaders will not obey new closures and they are the people who treat others with no regard.

In the same way that illegal mountain bikers choose to ignore the law in places like Brown’s Folly.

I’ve reported illegal off-roaders to the Police before. http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/towns/devizesheadlines/8887228.Illegal_riders_put_Erlestoke_walkers_to_fright/

I appeared on BBC Street Patrol UK last month (Series 2 episode 2) and did a five minute piece condoning illegal 4×4 users in the Mendips.

I care passionately about the countryside and I campaign against all illegal users, regardless of what transport method they use, especially in and around Bath and Somerset.

I support greater freedom for those who obey the law and treat other people with respect, regardless of the form of transport.

Why do you condone illegal 4 x 4 use on the Mendip Hills ?

I don’t. I campaign against illegal 4×4 use on the Mendip Hills.

Just realised I mistyped earlier.

I CONDEMN illegal 4x4s. If you go to the episode on I-player you will see me condemning them in the strongest terms.

Malcolm, could you post links to your newspaper articles where you target other illegal use of the area in question where actual damage is caused or laws broken – dogs off leads, fouling, people doing drugs, etc?

That way we’ll be able to see that there’s balance and that this isn’t just rabble rousing using cyclists as an easy target.

Oh and can you answer the question posed several times about why you made false claims about inspectors and arrest?

illegal mountain bikers

Careful there Malcolm,

As you no doubt well know, using a motor vehicle off-road without permission from the landowner or on a right of way of a lower classification is a direct criminal offence under the road traffic act

Whereas any claim of criminal offences rather than civil trespass on Browns Folly is a far more dubious proposition, whereby you would have to prove that someone had knowingly and intentionally or recklessly damaged or disturbed a protected site – thats a very different thing to what you’ve claimed on here so far, and have still not delivered any support for your assertion that damage is being done to any of the protected characteristics of the site – so far all you’ve actually demonstrated is that some people have been riding bicycles on existing well used tracks there, and even your own video ‘evidence’ shows an absence of conflict with other users.

So, lets be a little more careful with the ‘illegal’ word unless you can substantiate it

Since we’re on the issue of ‘illegality’ of course Malcolm, Perhaps we should shift back in time to 2009, then cycling was legalised in the Royal Victoria park:

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Ride-park/story-11317371-detail/story.html

About which you said :

There is a perfectly good road that goes all around Victoria Park. Cars move very slowly around it – it’s perfectly safe and fun to cycle around.Why can’t cyclists use that, instead of a gravel footpath that will put them in conflict with elderly pedestrians, children and dogs?

So Malcolm, lets not pretend this is anything to do with illegality shall we…

probably also worth recalling that despite claiming to be a libertarian you called the police because of parody twitter accounts lampooning you:

http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/councillor-Malcolm-Cupis-calls-police-spoof/story-19922660-detail/story.html

Was this another example of your determination to crack down on ‘illegality’? 😆 Would hate to see them cropping up again, wouldn’t we?

Nemesis, if people draw my attention to illegal behaviour of any sort that is evidenced I will run a story on it.

As I have explained, I have discussed it with Natural England and they have told me that they have inspectors with powers of arrest and the fine can be up to £20,000. As I said before, if this is not true I am surprised.

if people draw my attention to illegal behaviour of any sort that is evidenced I will run a story on it.

So what was illegal about people lampooning you on twitter? 😆

Of course you’ve still not demonstrated any form of illegality at browns folly – so in absence of you showing me any proof of actual illegality we’re talking civil trespass and nothing more

And you’re supposed to be a libertarian 😆

Ninfan you would be right if it wasn’t a SSSI. This is governed by Section 28 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. It is a law.

I don’t know what point you are trying to make with the Victoria Park link. One pathway has been designated dual use.

Ninfan you would be right if it wasn’t a SSSI. This governed by Section 28 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981. It is a law.

Riding a bicycle on a SSSI is not a criminal offence

you know this very well

Intentionally or recklessly destroying or disturbing protected species or features of a SSSI in the knowledge of such is of course a criminal offence

its a non sequitur to claim that the former automatically amounts to a commission of the latter, especially since your own evidence is that bikes are being ridden on existing paths.