Base training "v" speed training.

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Base training "v" speed training.

30 posts & 18 voices | Started 2 years ago by Ti29er | Latest reply from Ti29er

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Ti29er - Member

This year so far I have concentrated on longer rides on the tarmac - especially as February was so poor.
Managing 4hrs on the mtn bike and 50+ miles. With 20psi in the tyres it's like resistance training - only harder!

So this evening I popped out for a quick 2hr xc ridge ride locally, it's my normal ride, maybe ridden 2-3 times a week. Blooming 'eck, was I struggling!

I think I need to put some speed back into the mix or come Black Park this Sunday (probably too late for that event)but perhaps more importantly the summer's events will see one exhausted me.

Posted 2 years ago #
big_n_daft - Member

long steady distance tains your body fo just that.

you change the programme to shorter higher intensity stuff as you get closer to your season

get Joe Friel's book or any other on training for racing

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

That's what I have.
It's an exspansion of Chapetr 1 that takes up an entire book now!

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

There are very few people who can do well in XC races and 24 solos, they're just very different. If you train to ride at a constant pace for a long time you'll struggle to have that turn of speed.

Posted 2 years ago #
uplink - Member

Bit of both for me
Intensity though the week, distance/having fun at the weekend

Posted 2 years ago #
RHSno2 - Member

During those winter months its good to have the odd zone4 LT efforts which stop you losing speed and lung capacity whilst you are working on building your base.

Moving into this period you should be adding a little more intensity for sure.

In theory when you are coming to the end of the winter miles you should be gagging to up the intensity.

Posted 2 years ago #
ononeorange - Member

The problem I have with winter is (when it's wet) it's impossible to do anything at any speed and I lose any consistentcy and that makes it a short ride as I'm usually exhausted quickly. Fitness comes on much quicker once the mud starts to become sensible again, so usually don't start getting fit until the longer rides from April onwards.

Posted 2 years ago #
RHSno2 - Member

but thats it there. Perceived speed versus actual effort.

Posted 2 years ago #
terrahawk - Member

I had a pretty good run of results in 24 hour and long races in the last couple of years (and early this year) however my cyclocross (fast, 1 hour, etc) 'season' was a bit of a disaster.

I've learned to include a few more interval sessions in my schedule now

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

Cheers all.
I now have a ready-made excuse for coming last at this weekend's XC race at Black Park!
Seriously, my main focus is the 24hr event at the end of May and surviving that is uppermost in my mind.
Between now & then I have the Merida in 5 weeks (night & day ride) & not much else booked in so I can concentrate on riding some proper hours.

Off to spend a couple of days at both Afan and CDB in the next 6 weeks and ride the trails back-to-back-to-back and also Dalby where I think continous 3 laps (10hrs maybe)might be possible soon.

Posted 2 years ago #
DWH - Member

In theory when you are coming to the end of the winter miles you should be gagging to up the intensity.

+1

If you're not "gagging for it" you've been riding too hard in the winter.

Posted 2 years ago #
didnothingfatal - Member

Gym Jones some intersting stuff throughout their website, or try Crossfit

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

Bizarrely, I've actually "enjoyed" the 3 and 4hrs on the tarmac as it's been long and hard work - almost masochistic in a way!
Much better to do 3-4hrs XC as the scenery is much more varied!
I'll check those site out - thanks.

Posted 2 years ago #
Joxster - Member

Suck in your beer gut and MTFU. 4hrs on the road is a recovery ride. You need base miles before doing intervals or you wont see the benefit.

Posted 2 years ago #
Shandy - Member

I have the Triathlete's Training Bible, it is an incredible resource if you want to "self-coach" yourself with a very race-focussed approach. I find the phasing of the training a bit restrictive and demotivating, particularly as I'm training for fun rather than the best possible race results.

I've been doing gym sessions, mainly as rehab for an injury. Gym work isn't for everyone but it can make a big difference on the bike in terms of strength, balance, and your anaerobic threshold. It also reduces your chances of injury. If you are training to finish a 24 then a bit of cross training will help you stave off fatigue for that bit longer.

Posted 2 years ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

4hrs on the road is a recovery ride.

Agreed, though he is being somewhat stubborn and is riding his MTB with MTB tyres for this period.

Although I would say that I'm not sure this is a good strategy for either XC or enduro racing.

Posted 2 years ago #
Keva - Member

pretty much all my riding / workouts are 'speed training', I very rarely ride for longer than 2.5 hrs but when I want to I always can. Doesn't interval training build endurance anyways ? it seems to for me.

Kev

Posted 2 years ago #
mtbmatt - Member

It doesn't take too long to put a bit of zip back into the legs.
Long miles are the best prep for a 24hr race, so don't panic too much as the races are far enough away. 8 weeks of speed/power work should be enough.

It depends on the type of roads you are riding, but most road rides will be more constant than MTB which has lots of changes of speed/pace.

There are very few people who can do well in XC races and 24 solos, they're just very different. If you train to ride at a constant pace for a long time you'll struggle to have that turn of speed.

I guess it depends what you would class as "well", but the top 24 hours are also very quick at XC. All would easily hold thier own at Expert level.

Posted 2 years ago #
crikey - Member

4 hours is a recovery ride?

Is this willy waving or do you not really understand the idea of recovery rides?

Posted 2 years ago #
RHSno2 - Member

Base is pretty much training your body to be fuel effiecent and feed of fat in lower zones AND build capilary capacity (Fat requires more oxygen so builds more oxygen). Nowwwww. This takes a long time 8 - 20 weeks and is really only for race focused individuals (as if you don't have that kind of reason/drive you'd give up).

You build a great big base and you can build a huge pyramid.

There are lots and lots of other things to consider but this sort of training is 'serious' and will take you from being a keen amateur to an athelete. For most people doing what you can and when you can works...

This is my first year of actually doing this (I have a coach who tells me all this and explains the purpose) and its SO different to previous attempts BUT I have a different focus and put a lot of time into it.

Posted 2 years ago #
didnothingfatal - Member

Get a road bike and start doing sessions at Hillingdon velodrome, easy to do interval training there as there are two obvious lines, with a third of the track recovery then.

Posted 2 years ago #
ourmaninthenorth - Member

4 hours is a recovery ride?

Is this willy waving or do you not really understand the idea of recovery rides?

Er, Joxster's been quite handy in his day...

Posted 2 years ago #
crikey - Member

Fair enough, but for 'normal' people, 4 hours is a long time to be riding for 'recovery' no?

Even then, I would guess that coaches would consider 4 hours to be something other than just recovery..

Posted 2 years ago #
SpokesCycles - Member

I find I can do "OK" at shorter XC events- I can podium in sport and so on and if I really set my mind to it and try and block out the hurt then I can have a fair turn of speed. However, I focus on base training and prefer enduro events. If you're focussing on short events then now is the time to stop focussing on Base and move on to speed.

If you're planning on doing both, and doing specifically well in one, then intersperse both base with speed but do more of whichever type of training suits your goals more. If you're aiming to do well at enduros then focus on base, if you want Gorrick/NPS/etc. points then focus on speed.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

I think I should bring a little clarity to the thread, so apologies if I cover the ground again...
I have the solo 24hr championships 22/23 May.
It's my first try at something like this and at 45, having only owned a bike since my 40's it's a reasonable challenge.
I don’t wish to come last but as I did pairs Bonty 24 in ’09 and found I had the legs for that event I think this is a logical next step; I think we came 9th Men’s Vet pairs.
Plus, I’m done for the moment photographing others put themselves to the test, now it’s my turn.

January was huge fun in the snow and I did lots of short 2hr rides before my feet froze plus 4:43 at the last Brass Monkey in January.
Then ill for 2 weeks, plus the weather here was vile in February so I took to the road, starting at 3hrs and latterly doing 4hrs using the mtn bike.
Last night I rode XC for the first time in a while and found I was quite fatigued.
With Black Park in a few days, I’m looking to consolidate and continue with a weekly 4hr ride plus the other 2-3hr XC blasts.

This, I hope will bring me within range of being in a position to manage the 24hrs without too much fatigue as I want to be able to ride as much as possible.

All thoughts and advice greatly appreciated & thanks thus far for everyone's input and comments.

Oh, and if you're going to the event too, please do say Hi and give me size 9 if I'm looking a little dazed!

Posted 2 years ago #
ac282 - Member

I would have said that 12-16 weeks is enought time to go from base/conditioning through a build phase and into peak race form. If you pcik your target event you can work backwards to decide when to start riding quickly

BTW

I'm not sure I agree that top XC guys couldn't do well in 24 hr races. I think it's more a case of them not wanting to damage the rest of their season. I'm pretty sure Oli could win mayhem if he put his mind to it but it wouldn't do his world cup form any good.

Posted 2 years ago #
SpokesCycles - Member

I'd say just get out as often as you can- obviously paying attention to your body and not overworking yourself. I get out something like 4 times a week at the minute with a variety of short, sharp rides where I basically ruin myself within an hour and longer, steadier rides. Remember to ride some at a gentler pace- just pushing yourself all the time will fatigue you and just make you hurt. Personally I'd keep trying on the raod and slowly build up from a steady pace to being able to push yourself happily on the MTB.

Posted 2 years ago #
njee20 - Member

I guess it depends what you would class as "well", but the top 24 hours are also very quick at XC. All would easily hold thier own at Expert level.

Matt you're clearly one of the few I meant! Perhaps I should've said that all top 24 hour riders would be fine in XC races, I just meant that your average chipper training to survive a 24 solo is unlikely to simultaneously become an Elite XC racer too. Ie... Tim shouldn't be too worried that having done a winter of long steady rides he's not got a huge amount of speed in his legs for a flat out XC race.

Posted 2 years ago #
miketually - Member

If you're preparing for the Solo24, I'd say that you need more slow long rides. You need to get used to being on a bike for a long time, especially if you've not done many rides of more than 4 hours.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ti29er - Member

My thought now is to mix it up more.

4x 4hr ride this month, then up it to 5hr rides.
3 XC ride a week too.
This should see my ability to ride XC come back fairly quickly and condition the legs to the turn of speed required of them that I do not seem to get on road rides.

Would that be wise, with about 12 weeks to go?

Posted 2 years ago #

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