Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 161 total)
  • Banning Diesel
  • coconut
    Free Member

    News this morning that Paris, Madrid, Athens & Mexico City have all agreed to ban diesel vehicles from those cities by 2025. Makes you wonder how backward the UK is in comparison.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38170794

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    The UK is backward, it’s going further into 1976 every day that passes under its feet.

    The diesel issue is long over due, but try convincing the Quash/Ewok/Audi/BMW crowd about the merits and you’ll get a blank stare back.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Should be banned sooner imho from the big cities. London already has a much higher congestion charge for older diesels.

    Higher road tax for diesels and possibly an additional purchase tax should help steer people back to petrol and hybrid.

    As an aside the Paris mayor has made a right dogs breakfast of traffic in the city significantly increasing congestion and polution. She’s been closing roads and this has created significant delays and jams all over the city. They have also had measures to allow only odd / even reg number cars on alternate days when pollution has been particularly bad. From January any car over 20 years old will be banned from the city center (equally daft imo)

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    nickjb
    Free Member

    Should be banned sooner imho from the big cities. London already has a much higher congestion charge for older diesels…
    As an aside the Paris mayor has made a right dogs breakfast of traffic in the city

    Maybe this sort of thing should be done at a higher, Europe wide level. Maybe some kind of Europe wide union with the power to make laws for all to follow? Sounds good!, I’m in 😛

    ScottChegg
    Free Member

    Higher road tax for diesels and possibly an additional purchase tax should help steer people back to petrol and hybrid.

    The govt set up this up this scenario with it’s bizarre taxing structure. Now they look surprised that everyone has gone for a diesel.

    but try convincing the Quash/Ewok/Audi/BMW crowd about the merits

    See above. It’s not the average motorists fault. They buy what on the face of it is a clean car.

    And then VW step in with blatant lies and dishonesty. Who does the average punter listen to? Which is the cleanest car?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @nick 🙂

    How likley do you think an EU measure challenging VW, Renault, Citroen etc would be ? Compare US fines and vehicle repair or repurchase with what European owners have been offered. Vested interest rules.

    The govt set up this up this scenario with it’s bizarre taxing structure.

    Now they look surprised that everyone has gone for a diesel.

    I cannot believe they took the testing at face value. I owned my first diesel from 2007-2014 and it was a great car but no eco vehicle.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    jambalaya – Member

    Higher road tax for diesels….

    No.

    I bought my diesel on the basis that it was greener than petrol.
    Why should I be penalised?
    I can’t afford a new vehicle and the value of the current one will drop.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    What happens about busses, lorries, taxis and trucks? Genuine question.

    Now they look surprised that everyone has gone for a diesel.

    I thought people bought diesel because of the better fuel consumption?

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    ^^ Rusty well I bought my car (3L+ petrol) it had normal road tax now it’s £550 a year for a car that does 4,000 miles per anum. Now that being said yes I think it should be phased in and perhaps new cars only.

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    Blame Gordon for that.

    But there are an awful lot of Zero rated diesel cars out there now, unlikely to be shuved up the tax band since the whole point of them was to come under the current regulations.

    The biggest issue in London is the Public transport vehicles, busses and taxis are by far the worst offenders but there will be Nothing done about them, ever, likewise trucks.
    Ban private vehicles all you like but they’re not the route cause of pollution, even BoJoBrexit published a paper on it but it got bashed down by CallMeDick.

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    I bought my diesel on the basis that it was greener than petrol.

    But it’s not. It never has been and it probably never will be. I’ve always known this, and it’s fairly obvious if you look. Who told you this?

    Drac
    Full Member

    It’ll inevitably will happen. I’m not sure the UK is backward about it given other countries have only announced such measures recently.

    ScottChegg
    Free Member

    What happens about busses, lorries, taxis and trucks?

    Well, according top the earthmuffin on the radio yesterday, they will all be hydrogen powered.

    Where they will fill up is a question they dealt with by ignoring it.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    wonder how i get my log book changed to SVO 😉

    we have hydrogen busses here in aberdeen.

    at last chat with my mate the bus mechanic the cost of keeping the hydrogen busses on the road is ~60% more than that of a conventional bus.

    captainsasquatch
    Free Member

    Maybe this sort of thing should be done at a higher, Europe wide level. Maybe some kind of Europe wide union with the power to make laws for all to follow? Sounds good!, I’m in 😛

    Don’t be ridiculous! Give it a few years and someone with great powers of hindsight and a great imagination will come along and criticise them for not being able to predict things and then accuse them of collusion on all sorts of levels and throw spurious facts around in order to sound convincing.
    Veg oil burners for everyone.

    wilburt
    Free Member

    Unlikely they’ll apply them retrospectively but they do have to change, I would like to see a new tax regime based on pollutants applied to all new cars from whatever date. Car manufacture, insurance and financiers are way too powerful in the UK though and the home of the Range Rover isnt ging to be in a rush to kill off its golden goose.

    ScottChegg
    Free Member

    Rusty well I bought my car (3L+ petrol) it had normal road tax now it’s £550

    Wait until next year. If it’s emissions are above 255 it’ll be £2,000 per year.

    Gulp.

    There will be a lot of big motored iron being dumped next year. Get out before the rush.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    PeterPoddy – Member
    Who told you this?

    The media, car industry and government.

    It was the official line for quite a while.

    captainsasquatch
    Free Member

    ^^ Rusty well I bought my car (3L+ petrol) it had normal road tax now it’s £550 a year for a car that does 4,000 miles per anum. Now that being said yes I think it should be phased in and perhaps new cars only.

    😆 Seriously? 😆

    stevemuzzy
    Free Member

    Problem lies with manufacturers. I wanted a big estate and as i lease a merc, audi, volvo or bmw is better value due to depreciation. The e class, v90 and a6 dont come in hybrid (yet for volvo but it will be 70k!) or a petrol that isnt bonkers so I had to go diesel. I wanted a petrol or hybrid having loved my lexus for the last 3 years but couldnt get one.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Remember, these changes won’t apply to your current car – only to new cars registered from April 2017.

    not quite scotchegg …. if anything it might even increase the value of his big asss motor as people still want them but dont want to pay the increased tax.

    look at the era where the tax jumped to 500 quid …. the early models of those cars that still have the old tax regime of 250 odd command a premium.

    shifter
    Free Member

    Anyone like to hazard a guess at the mpg of a petrol T6?

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “The media, car industry and government.

    It was the official line for quite a while.”

    The whole of the 90s as i remember it.

    i prefer to measure it in MPT convert…. miles per turbo when they stick in a little engine and boost it to hell…. possibly even MPC – miles per conrod.

    joebristol
    Full Member

    It’s a tricky one. I’ve always preferred petrol cars and had 14 different ones over the years. However, work mileage has meant my last 3 have been diesel due to mileage. Just moved company and had to order a company car for the first time.

    First thoughts were I wanted a petrol plug in hybrid – a Merc C350e estate. But it was just outside the allowance for me on company car scheme as it costs so much – and couldn’t be delivered until at least May / June time. Hardly any other hybrids on the scheme. That said – whilst the Merc is under 50 g/km of co2 it makes a mockery of the testing system. It’s a 2 litre petrol turbo in a fairly heavy car. I know someone who has one, and when it runs out of electricity it’s mid 20’s mpg. Not very eco, but very low in company car tax.

    Looking outside of hybrids then diesel was the next cheapest company car tax option. I’ve got a max co2 output of 125g/km. On the current co2 measurement then petrol just doesn’t compete for me in a reasonable size family car. Gone for a Jaguar XE diesel in the lower powered version(163bhp). Nox wise I’m assuming this isn’t too bad an option – it’s got an adblue tank that needs to be refilled circa every 9000 miles.

    Given it’s not actually my car I’m probably less worried about any new diesel regulation. If I were buying the car myself I think I might have gone for petrol, through fear of new regulation which might devalue my new car.

    wobbliscott
    Free Member

    They’ll phase them out over time by a combination of making electric/hybrid cars cheaper, slowly increasing taxes on diesels and banning them from big town and city centres to make them inconvenient to use. What wont happen and can’t happen is a resurgence in petrol cars. Diesels rose as a result of efforts to reduce CO2 emissions as the number of cars on the road increased, which they have done, so a return to petrol can’t/shouldn’t happen. I think the government knows they can’t make diesel cars obsolete overnight – too many people invested in them.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    We’ve had years of misleading information about the performance and ecological improvements of vehicles. The government, hoodwinked by the ‘benefits’ of these ‘better’ engines (often in diesel guise) then put in place tax regimes to ‘support’ these myths.

    We now realise it was wrong, and once again rush in to start buying the next ‘Eco’ technology of hybrids and electric, and once again governments will fall over themselves to support this new round of car sales. I bet in a decade we are wondering how we solve the battery pollution issue…

    At what point do we sort out the lack of great infrastructure and public transport provision, as well as tackle the issue of folk thinking it’s ok to commute 50+ miles each way or drive to the shop 400m away?
    I personally am more and more challenged to walk and ride more.

    igm
    Full Member

    The biggest issue in London is the Public transport vehicles, busses and taxis are by far the worst offenders but there will be Nothing done about them, ever

    Watch this space. I’m talking to bus manufacturers and councils. They will probably be heading electric possibly with on route charging (welcome back trolley bus?).

    Trucks are more likely to be hydrogen I understand but I know less about that.

    bikebouy – Member
    Blame Gordon for that.

    I first went diesel in 1995 because it was a far better deal financially – as I recall that was pre-Gordon.

    newrobdob
    Free Member

    I love petrol cars and can’t wait for the tide to change and diesels be phased out.

    Might have to get something more modern than my 18mpg petrol stinking Volvo turbo beast though. 🙂

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    The media, car industry and government.

    It was the official line for quite a while.

    Really? Not to my knowledge. I’ve always known diesels are dirty. Just follow one…..

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    I don’t believe that you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.

    As others have said, it was the official line for years.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @joe interesting

    @Captain politically you cannot just wack tax up on all diesels, personally I’d fine VW a huge amount and force them to offer to buy back all the cars as the American have done. Except EU will block that even if we did have the courage to do it.

    IMO the big driver ( 😉 ) for the increase in Diesels was fuel economy, the eco thing came second and manufacturers have decieved the public there.

    I don’t believe you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.

    I was certainly aware but was sceptical to say the least when I bought my 2.7TDI

    chorlton
    Free Member

    Gone for a Jaguar XE diesel in the lower powered version(163bhp). Nox wise I’m assuming this isn’t too bad an option – it’s got an adblue tank that needs to be refilled circa every 9000 miles.

    Just googled what this adblue thing is. We’re using a new Zafira as a courtesy car at the minute and adblue flashes up on the dash now and then. Does it really work?

    DT78
    Free Member

    They are talking about introducing congestion charges for diesels in Southampton. I think just trucks. Going to hurt the port, and tbh probably won’t make a dent on pollution given the massive ships that sit there with their engines running all day….

    We bought our diesel because we thought it would bde cheaper to run, and therefore greener, as it used less fuel and had cheaper tax. when we were looking for a secondhand focus there really wasn’t many petrol options available.

    And for road tax being £2k for those with higher pollution I think that is a good idea. Even if it means older big engine cars become museum pieces

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    But the tax won’t be retrospective, so current vehicles unaffected, it’s already been mooted.

    tenacious_doug
    Free Member

    Really? Not to my knowledge. I’ve always known diesels are dirty. Just follow one…..

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/22/the-rise-diesel-in-europe-impact-on-health-pollution

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    I don’t believe you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.

    Emissions from diesel vehicles have been reported to be significantly more harmful than those from petrol vehicles.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust#Health_concerns

    Not hard to find…..

    I’m generally skeptical about any advertising. It’s always been the particulate emissions causing cancer etc. I used to be well into cars etc when I was younger, just as diesels were getting popular. At the time (mid 80s) i’m sure diesel prices went up because they were dirtier. There was plenty about it at the time if I recall correctly. To be fair its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other with the pollution, it’s just what’s the most harmful that’s the flavour of the month. It used to be CO2 harming the environment, then we learned that it was the particulates causing cancer and other illnesses that were worse, now we’ve got CO2 as low as possible.
    I’m also finding it amusing that someone on STW believes ‘The Government’ too. Seems convenient to me… 🙂

    It’s basically the 26/27.5/29 thing. Car manufacturers will tell you anything is better to get you to buy one.

    angeldust
    Free Member

    I don’t believe that you were unaware that diesel was promoted as greener than petrol.

    As others have said, it was the official line for years.

    That certainly was, and to a certain extent still is, the general public perception. More mpg = ‘greener’ was the general (and yes, probably short-sighted) view. How dirty diesels were didn’t really come into it, though people are becoming much more aware now. Anyone who denies that to be the case is being deliberately obtuse, or in true STW fashion is just being a sanctimonious arse :wink:.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    It used to be CO2 harming the environment, then we learned that it was the particulates causing cancer and other illnesses that were worse, now we’ve got CO2 as low as possible.

    See?
    You do remember.

    Anyone who denies that to be the case is being deliberately obtuse, or in true STW fashion is just being a sanctimonious arse :wink:.

    Luckily, no one has denied it, have they?

    globalti
    Free Member

    I remember when the Government began promoting diesel over petrol and scientists were warning that their decision was swopping a short-term problem for a much worse, long-term problem. The predictions have turned out to be true.

    br
    Free Member

    Motorists (and manufactures) follow the ‘rules’ put down by Govt.

    If you’re old enough you’ll remember when most UK cars came with a 1300cc option, and then company car tax bands changed to 1400cc. Manufacturers then stopped making/selling 1.3’s and sold 1.4’s instead.

    Diesels are no different, when I got my last petrol company car in 2006, when most had already gone to diesel. And then in 2008 I moved to an allowance, as tax-wise it’d got ‘cheaper’ to run my own vs a company car.

    When the Govt brought in the c02 rules in 2007 we had a 2006 Freelander TDI auto and it’s co2 was 1 above the ‘limit’ meaning the VED went up to +£400. 2007 Freelanders were 1 co2 below…

    They make the rules, we (and the manufacturers) just follow them.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 161 total)

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