The London fixie thread set me off down this road. We all see bad cycling every day – however what can be done realistically to stop it?

What I see varies from the inattentive – people who pull out from behind a bus without looking and so on and the unskilled – the folk who use really poor road positioning or don’t know how to brake effectively to others such as the angry cyclist ( I have been guilty in the past) and the no lights red light jumper. Some “bad cyclists” are highly skilled in riding their bikes but still ride in such a way as to annoy other road users.

Most bad cycling just annoys folk – its not really dangerous although it can be.

But the question is what can be done to stop this?
More education in schools?
The police can’t even deal with all the bad driving which is far more dangerous so traffic enforcement is no answer I don’t think
Cyclecraft courses when you buy a bike? But hat will do nothing for those on old secondhand bikes?
Make it an alternative to getting fines that you do training if caught breaking the law? Is that really a good use of police time?
Free training for all available?

Anyone any bright ideas?

Would I get shouted at if I suggested to a certain extent there is a reliance on Darwinian principles?

bombers, pwning
shoes, weeing

set me off down tis road.

Bad typing – whats the answer.? 😉

neilsonwheels – Member

Bad typing – whats the answer.?

Speeelchequer and the edti button

Easy!

Get on with your own life, and mind your own business.

Threaten them with being locked in a room with me and TJ battling, that would sort it pretty quick 😛

Don – it does impact on us all tho – as it leads to intolerance from car drivers and the extra accidents give rise to pressure for bad laws to restrict cycling.

Folk will always take chances whether it is cycling, driving or walking for that matter, especially in a busy city. As mentioned in the first thread about that fixie video it’s an adrenalin thing or some are just c0cks. Most people can be educated and I believe the vast majority of cyclists aren’t that bad but you will always get a certain percentage that will only learn from making a mistake. Unfortunately some of the mistakes that are made are fatal.

I think this is called natural selection.

Speeelchequer and the edti button

Easy!

Sorry. 😉

Getting Bikeability into more schools might help.

err…

But hat will do nothing

😉

Oh FFS! bloody Speeelchequer

NOW in “missing the point” shocker!

I hate that edti button

Its got to be for all cyclists, compulsory helmet use, registration plates & a hefty Tax to use a bike on the road 😉

I think the answer is to get the cyclists off roads completely, make it law for cyclists to cycle on all pavements wherever possible.

The short term solution is deal with the pavements we’ve got to work with, in the long term, transform all of them (and build new ones along areas where pavements don’t exist) into smooth cycle lanes.

As for pedestrians, learn to live it, learn to stick to the non cycle marked area of pavements, learn to buy a cycle and join the revolution.

Drivers want it, cyclist want it, you know it too. 🙂

i was thinking the same thing as i followed an old ctc type up my road the other day.

i was C. 1m from the kerb, a big 4×4 pulled out and round me and then in between me and the first cyclist.

the 4×4 then went to overtake cyclist, who was hugging the kerb, the 4×4 almost hit a refuge island and then had to brake suddenly and pull back in.

if the cyclist was further out the car would have never attempted that over take. the cyclist was encouraging bad driving imo.

I think that cycling and driving standards can only be improved together.

There isn’t an answer. If the Government thought for a second it could regulate (and make money out of) cycling, it would have done so.

Compulsory coaching, a “bicycle test” etc would cost too much to implement – it needs facilities, coaches/officials who have been through all the training, not to mention the cost of deciding what that training should be, publishing it, promoting it, you’re talking tens (if not hundreds) of millions of pounds for very little discernible benefit. Lets face it, there’s a driving test yet there’s still a huge number of shockingly shit drivers on the road. 😉

The old arguments about number plates, tax discs, insurance etc for cyclists have been discounted so many times it’s not worth going into here.

Police can’t even enforce existing traffic legislation and deal with the tens of thousands of untaxed/uninsured cars and drivers on the roads so introducing yet more legislation to stop a few errant cyclists isn’t going to work. A decent crackdown by police (as they do occasionally) on RLJs is a good starting point but there’s not enough police to do it everywhere (and personally I’m all in favour of police pulling cyclists for dangerous riding).

More education – hmm, but a lot of that is just going to be explaining to the car driver that actually, in the grand scheme of things, a cyclist (carefully) jumping a red light really isn’t a crime. It doesn’t inconvenience them, it’s not (usually) dangerous so just let it go. All it does is reduce the motorist to an impotent raging blob, unable to move yet thinking that, because they’ve paid their “road tax” they *should* be able to move freely.

Live and let live. Behave to others as you would want them to behave to you. Hope for the best, expect the worst.

I certainly do not want to go down the licence and insure route. I don’t think anyone has been able to make it work anyway.

Education for cyclists – but how to get it to the ones who need it most? The inattentive student and the aggressive adrenaline filled commuter?

I see cyclists who are clearly experienced and cycle a lot using the strangest road positions and not looking behind themselves ever. I nearly rode into one the other day.

Carrot and stick to increase the amount of folk taking up training – but what carrot and stick?

Hmm, Mental Mickey – serious?
So all those roads I ride along with junctions on the left… riding on the pavement, stopping at every junction…?

Education for cyclists – but how to get it to the ones who need it most? The inattentive student and the aggressive adrenaline filled commuter?

As we have seen in the fixie video and hopefully he will learn from it, getting squashed between a bus and a 4X4 should be the only education that plank will understand. He may be slightly less enthusiastic next time.

ban cycling let cars run them over on sight
TBH there are two problems niche cyclists in busy towns and non cyclists who own a bike.
one lot has no road skills because they are clueless the other dont care as they are so skilled they can avoid all danger.
No idea what the solution is tbh education of all road users? bit more space and sepration between the two users?

More people on bikes, fewer people in cars, is the answer.

You’ll still get the odd stunt muppet mind.

The guy in the video was just an idiot. Police already check cyclists at junctions around Old Street in London.

IMO Much of the “bad cycling” is just people struggling to cycle on roads designed around the motorist. I’ve been cycling 15 years and i find it immensley difficult sometimes.

Its all very well to scoff at other peoples road position when your a bike enthusiast, but most people aren’t and it would be good if they were still able to cycle around in safety. Thats not going to happen without some proper cycle infrastructure. Cycle lanes that are built to be safe and useful, rather than just slotted around everything else to fill some quota.

Oh and other cyclists giving bad cyclists abuse for riding like a moron works too – one chap on the Gloucester Rd in Bristol last year was so intent on hurling expletives at me for daring to suggest he should not RLJ he almost got run over. Which would have solved that particular problem nicely 😀

HoratioHufnagel

I was not intending to sneer at the bad road positioning – that one is simply a lack of education surely?

Lol @ ADH

Maybe* adopt a cycling policy from a country that has been reasonably successful integrated cycle network – Holland, springs to mind?

In the end its down to, £££ & I can never see a time where the public as a whole will swallow that pill, sadly.

*sorry, not clever enough to have a better answer 😉

DezB – Member
Hmm, Mental Mickey – serious?
So all those roads I ride along with junctions on the left… riding on the pavement, stopping at every

To be honest, the real solution would be cycle lanes on every road to help counteract that very problem you describe but that means widening all roads, not going to happen either.

I agree with the post that says ‘there is no solution’. 🙂

What’s the problem with riding though red lights anyway? People are able to tell when it’s safe to go through so leave them to it. It should at least be legal to turn left through a (edit)red light providing you give way. We should be revoking laws not making more up

I think cycle education at school would be a start, I still base quite a bit of my life on things i learnt at school, like maths, speling, rolling doobies, ummm

Do you even get the cycle proficiency test these days? or do kids do it on a laptop or by text or something.

scottidog – Member
What’s the problem with riding though red lights anyway?

Would you say that if cars did it ❓

One thing that pisses me off is seeing other cyclists jump red lights – there’s no need, it pisses people off, motorists, pedestrians and the cyclists who DO stop at lights.

They don’t gain anything except a few seconds, but are a potential accident.

the 4×4 then went to overtake cyclist, who was hugging the kerb, the 4×4 almost hit a refuge island and then had to brake suddenly and pull back in.

if the cyclist was further out the car would have never attempted that over take. the cyclist was encouraging bad driving imo.

Personally I see that as the $x$ driver being sh1t.

Not sure, as others have said, that there is a solution as such. It’s down to people. More education may help cyclists when they are younger with their technique and to teach them the right road etiquette. But then it will still boil down to how individuals ride. Given the club I have recently joined and cycle with some seem to have no issue with batting down the footpaths, jumping red lights and generally riding as if they are the most important thing on the road / path / bridleway.

Given that all car drivers have been through (or should have been through) a formal test and a percentage of them drive in an inappropriate manner it would suggest that education won’t work. Perhaps all we can do is ride in what we see is the right way and lead by example. If no one pays any attention then at least you can be comfortable (or unbearably smug) that you are “in the right”

From what I see, there are many many more motorists who need educating.
Just one little incident from my ride home yesterday. But I’m sure the type of “cyclist” who would start a thread entitled “bad cycling” will think it was my fault. Ha.

http://s142.photobucket.com/albums/r90/dezb99/Junk/?action=view&current=fiestaorseat.mp4

cynic-al – Member
scottidog – Member
What’s the problem with riding though red lights anyway?

Would you say that if cars did it

Cars are bigger, less manoeuvrable and cause more damage to things they hit for a start.

Some people are **** idiots. Some of them ride bikes. It’s a bigger issue than just bad cycling!

Not a lot you can do about it really?

I guess this one has already been done but can’t be bothered searching? http://vimeo.com/24136878

What’s the problem with riding though red lights anyway?

Would you say that if cars did it

Load of cars round here do RLJ – almost as many as cycling RLJ’ers.

I’m hoping that more bikes + fewer cars = fewer traffic lights.

… but then we’d have the issue of cyclists running Zebra crossings.

Cars are bigger, less manoeuvrable and cause more damage to things they hit for a start.

Like a cyclist going through a red?