Hi all,
New to the forum but not to mtb. What does everyone think of automating the suspension. I see that Lapierre have brought out a system which seems to work ok. I guess others will appear soon.
Thought i would have a go at building a home grown version for my Zesty 514. Ive decided to go the easy route and just make the suspension lock when going uphill. I am not a jumper or mad downhill cyclist, so a simple system will suit me fine.
I will use a servo controlled by a mercury switch (or two to stop any twitching) contained in a box strapped to my rear suspension. My other hobby is radio controlled helicopters so I will be using radio control to send the “bikes going uphill ” signal to the front forks.
,Firstly i will concentrate on getting the rear shock control up and running and worry about the front later.
Let me know what you guys think, i will keep this thread alive with updates as to my “build”.
I dont think this would suit an aggressive biker but for me i think it may just be just the ticket.

If you an make it lock out my front and rear suspension and raise my seatpost for ascents at the flick of a button – I’m in!

Would an accelerometer allow more control and adjustment as to what ‘going uphill’ means?

https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/80

as well as being solid state and thus a bit more robust?

What’s automatic about having to press a switch to activate lockout ?
In which way will your system be different to conventional bar mounted lockout levers?

What’s automatic about having to press a switch to activate lockout ?

a mercury switch is automatic.

It’s like an electronic spirit level – when the bubble reaches the end it trips a switch.

I will be using radio control to send the “bikes going uphill ” signal to the front forks.

From that line it implies there will be user participation (pressing a switch)

From that line it implies there will be user participation (pressing a switch)

fair enough. I just read it that the mercury switch would trigger the radio signal.

Why would you want the suspension locked out going up hill automatically? Does it really pedal that badly? In my experience suspension is extremely useful for going up hill, when it’s rocky!

From that line it implies there will be user participation (pressing a switch)

That’s not how it reads to me! As above a solid state sensor should be more reliable. I can see the mercury getting too jiggled on an mtb and locking the forks exactly when you dont need it. Keep in kind that typical hills aren’t that steep it might feel like you are riding up and down a cliff in reality it’s often a few degrees.

I can see a button being better than automation any way. I did have musings for a system based on seat height. The front and rear suspension would have three settings and would adjusted based on whether the seat is up for climbing, down for tech, or mid for general riding.

Have a look at the Specialized ‘Brain’ shocks. Alternatively, use movement at the fork to unlock the shock. I can’t see the mercury tilt switch working in practice because the angles of ascent will be too subtle and when you hit a bump going downhill you’ll often get false triggers off the tilt switch.

Plus the mercury switch will register you going downhill whenever you brake and uphill when you accelerate.

Plus the mercury switch will register you going downhill whenever you brake and uphill when you accelerate.

What about when you wheelie or endo?

didn’t offroad/K2 and cannondale do this in the past (remember reading about them/both used batteries on their suspension systems i think).

am sure more have done it too.

ah here’s a pic (the cannondale actually was an electric lock out not suspension i remember now).

proflex K2

uphill when you accelerate.

For the system to lockout in the event of a violent acceleration may be desirable to be fair – more so than while simply climbing.

didn’t offroad/K2 and cannondale do this in the past (remember reading about them/both used batteries on their suspension systems i think).

K2 did the “Smart Shock”, which had computer controlled damping. Cannondale also did the “ELO” electronic lockout, never saw one that worked! Nice theory. Neither did what the OP is proposing per se, the Fox/Lapiere ICD system (which the OP has taken inspiration from) is probably closest.

I’m sure there was a stupidly expensive electric Leftie fork available one too.

They even called it Simon.

I have made a manual fox CTD servo operated lever. I looked into the realms of making it automatic, sensing the terrain to adjust the shock and fork. There are so many permutations that needed to be coded into the arduino, I gave up. I think manual selection is so so much better. And fool proof.

For instance, you could be cycling along a smooth trail, like at CyB, then hit a root, rock or drop off. If you’re going at a fair pace, your forks could still be locked out or have a higher compression setting, and you could have a nasty hit.
I did think about leaving the forks open (I hardly ever change the compression on them anyway) and have an accelerometer on the crown, sensing the trail and changing the shock settings to match. But my CTD selection is so easy to use, I prefer the manual approach.
OP, are you using Arduino for your project? Will be good to hook up and share ideas.

Magura have released forks with auitomatic lockout and adjusted suspension settings using an accelerometer.
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/magura-ts8-elect-fork-review-2014.html

Want a USB port on my fork now!

I think it could be a useful feature but modern suspension works so well that you have to have a very good solution otherwise it doesn’t add anything and it can quite easily can make it worse. As people have already suggested there are so many situations and variables you need to account for so its a tricky thing to get right.

For me the complexity is in the control logic. Getting data from sensors and actuating servos is straight forward. But which servo to move and how much depending on various sensor inputs is the tricky bit.

There was a guy on Bike Radar who did this a few years back. He used a similar system to Lapiere ie using a fork mounted accelerometer to control the compression damping on the shock.

I think he took it quite far, got a working prototype, then he got some interest from someone in the industry who possibly bought his IP and he had to stop posting updates.

There was a guy on Bike Radar who did this a few years back. He used a similar system to Lapiere ie using a fork mounted accelerometer to control the compression damping on the shock.

I think he took it quite far, got a working prototype, then he got some interest from someone in the industry who possibly bought his IP and he had to stop posting updates.
I remember that! Fox told him to wind his neck in.

Yeah, to do it properly, you would need to map all the data of how your particular bike rides and the exact position on the terrain it was captured on. That’s when I gave up!
Mine is still in the proto stage, haven’t fitted it to the bike yet. The main reason why i want it, is if the shock is in Climb and I start heading down a trail, I have to stop to change it to Trail or Descend.

I remember that too, didn’t realise that was the outcome, interesting!

till in the proto stage, haven’t fitted it to the bike yet. The main reason why i want it, is if the shock is in Climb and I start heading down a trail, I have to stop to change it to Trail or Descend.

The current ctd lever is decent and effective, works well but you need to get it fitted under a major service back at major. I have it on my XC bike and it works as I can choose when to switch. It’s probably at its least efficient and effective if the control is arbitrary.

New Exposure bike lights include accelerometer tech to automatically dim or brighten the light depending on speed and uphill / downhill movement so the tech is out there and presumably already working (I just bought an exposure light but haven’t tried it yet!). Can’t see why it wouldn’t work in principle although whether it’s necessary or not is another matter. XTR Di2 has electronic control of Fox iCTD suspension included although I guess that it’s not automatic.
I can see some point in it – I rarely if ever use climb functions on forks or rear shocks because I always forget and then wonder why the bike is behaving like a complete dog when I’m pelting it downhill!

I’m no Luddite but I personally don’t see the point; the damping in forks and shocks is generally very good but if yours is lacking ‘something’, then you can have it tuned.

I think that a trail bike is a set of compromises with the suspension being one of them, but not the dominant factor. Many issues or quirks of your bike in certain circumstances can generally be ridden around, and the ability to do this is an indicator of your skill as a rider. I believe that careful setup and time on the bike will do more for your ride than yet another thing that could go wrong.

I had a carbon lefty with ELO. As well as looking awesome, it worked very well indeed. Having said that, I always felt a little nervous realising one unlucky snap could mean an expensive bill.

Wireless lockout though, if that’s what the op is talking about, sounds great.

Some sort of terrain sensing tech sounds like something I’d love to read about but wouldn’t imagine it will make the mainstream (even STW mainstream) for quite a while.

Wireless lockout: already here – Fox iCTD and Di2 XTR. You can already buy a Canyon bike with it on, although availability is listed as April – wait a minute May, June…..

OP – this is a nice topic to work on for your school project but it won’t work in real life. As discussed a mercury switch will get itself all of a muddle. Even a solid state device will need a lot of processing to filter out the noise and make sense of what’s going on. You don’t always want it locked uphill and you don’t necessarily want it fully open downhill. If you then start to look at a manual override for those occasions you’re defeating the point of an automatic system.

Systems like Speciaized’s Brain shocks are pretty good as an on/off switch. An electronic system to replicate the inertia valve would be your starting point. Making it continuously variable will be veeeery complicated.

makecoldplayhistory – Member

Some sort of terrain sensing tech sounds like something I’d love to read about but wouldn’t imagine it will make the mainstream (even STW mainstream) for quite a while.

It’s already here with Lapierre’s system – which by all accounts works very well. TBH, I’m surprised other brands haven’t copied/licensed the system, given the normal rush towards all things expensive/fancy/non standard/tech.

But, as mentioned above, why fix what’s not broken?
Modern suspension works amazingly well as is with a bit of seals,shims and air.

I can see potential here, after all it is a pretty big effort to lean down and turn the lockout.

jekkyl – Member

I can see potential here, after all it is a pretty big effort to lean down and turn the lockout.

On the fork, yes. On the shock, maybe on your bike. Imagine being in Climb or lock out, start hurtling down a rocky track with other riders right behind you. Would YOU take one hand off the bars to flick a lever that you cant see, that’s possibly obscured by a frame bag? I would have to pull over when the trail allows, or just have an annoying ride down, clattering all over the place and not enjoying it as much as I could. I live in Suffolk, and when I drive 5 hours to get to wales for some proper riding, I want to enjoy every little bit of it!

Yes, having an arduino linked up to a servo and spending hours on coding is overkill, I don’t doubt that at all, but I still think pushing a button on the handlebars, right next to the grips is easier than risking facial integration with a piece or Welsh slate!

Maybe something like this would help?

https://www.sram.com/rockshox/products/monarch-xx

, right next to the grips is easier than risking facial integration with a piece or Welsh slate!

It exists fox make it and sell it. It’s fitted on lots of bikes as standard. It was one cable to run it and it’s good.

While I think modern suspension works pretty good there is still a compromise between compliance and efficiency otherwise pedal platforms and lockout wouldn’t exist? So I think there is a performance advantage to be had.

I personally I don’t use any pedal platform or climbing mode as I think compromise is more suitable for me with a active back end. But, if there really wasn’t any compromise ie the shock can change the damping according to terrain then I would choose that. But that’s a big “if” and no doubt if it was possible it would cost mega bucks. Probably too many bucks for me stop using my slightly compromised normal shock.

I know, they are £70 ish. And I admitted its overkill but I have had fun making it and have taught myself how to code at the same time. Its easier to use too.
Why chop firewood, you can buy it ready chopped?! Why build your own shed, you can get contractors in to do it for you? Why learn to build your own wheels, you can buy ready made ones. It’s a daft idea really, silly Fox, Lapierre, Scott, Cannondale and Shimano!

Would YOU take one hand off the bars to flick a lever that you cant see, that’s possibly obscured by a frame bag? I would have to pull over when the trail allows, or just have an annoying ride down, clattering all over the place and not enjoying it as much as I could.

Alternatively, always rise with the suspension set for when you really want it, i.e descending, then there is zero risk of forgetting. This fix is also lighter, cheaper and more reliable 😉

Scott had a 3 position bar mounted control for their rear shocks on the Genius bikes back in 2005. It worked very well and was cable actuated.

Wind things on and my 2009 Turner Sultan with a Turner / DW spec RP23 shock rides far better than the Scott Genius ever did and I never have to touch the shock.

It’s interesting but it isn’t something I need more electronics to solve – not when a 5 year old bike already does it for me.

I give your homemade device 2 rides before you’re bored fixing it…….

(hint, a MTB is just about the worst environment possible for electronics and complicated electromechanical systems)

Even if somehow you manage to get a sensible signal to noise ratio out of your mercury tilt switch (which you won’t) and it doesn’t break and leak mercury out everywhere the first time you fall off, then simply things like sealing connectors, stopping your servo filling up with mud, will be the issues. Lets face it, doing a bit of DSP on some sensor data and deciding when to make a servo turn is a very simple bit of coding, and yet Lapierre took several years to get it to work……..

The other point is that properly set up damping (which is what we are talking about, unless you are going to somehow make your system modify spring rate as well) will control the wheels mass at all times anyway. Decent damping, as found on pretty much any of the modern shocks, controls things so well that when used in conjunction with a bike with modern geometry, then “locking it all out” is getting to be fairly pointless tbh. I ride a 160mm bike, and it happily rides down the towpath just as nicely as it rides down a mountain without fiddling with any levers!