Sorry for the confusion, I was talking about an upgrade on what I listen to music on, so just a headphone based system. The Marantz is one of only a few CD players that have a built in headphone socket, so I may be looking for new headphones/amp/CD player if I think there is a marked improvement for the money.
Cheers.
Headphones are a bit passé (my own, not HiFi Plus's thoughts) so you will not have that many options. Most people have speakers.
I imagine the step up amplification within the CD player might be the stage you have to look at replacing with an add-on box of tricks.
A good HiFi system can enhance the enjoyment of any music - as long as it's music that you already like, of course.
No way - some CDs are dreadfully mastered and a "good" system can really show this up. Over compressed pop is the worst (compression as in the engineering/production compression used in studios to limit dynamic range not digital audio compression to limit file size).
The best example i have heard was a Prince collection CD which sounded aweful - a shame as some of the originals can sound fantastic.
Some pop can sound fantastic however, take that's recent albums are very well mastered.
Well of course, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"...
2unfit2ride - MemberSorry for the confusion, I was talking about an upgrade on what I listen to music on, so just a headphone based system. The Marantz is one of only a few CD players that have a built in headphone socket, so I may be looking for new headphones/amp/CD player if I think there is a marked improvement for the money.
Cheers.
Don't know myself, but there's some opinions here:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/cd-player-good-headphone-output-420176/
that might be useful.
Getting as close to the feeling of the live performance as possible is what interests me more than the exact sound that was recorded
If you really wanted close to live performance, you'd not want fancy kit. Get yourself a bunch of probably quite bad quality but loud PA speakers, wire them up with 40 year old lawnmower cable, then up the bass to ludicrous levels, that'd get you much closer to the true live rock sound than some listening to a high quality reproduction of a 'live' recording that was taken straight off the desk at the gig and then has had the crowd noise added in.
Similarly, if you want the real studio recording sound, get hold of a pair of Yamaha NS-10s.
Although to be honest, if you need good quality equipment for a song to work, you're listening to crap music. Like that Johnny Cash - Personal Jesus someone posted up there, that is genius, and still sounds great on a pair of cheap laptop speakers.
Having said all that, the best music in my house comes from a yamaha U1. Nothing beats music that you're actually producing yourself.
Joe
Although to be honest, if you need good quality equipment for a song to work, you're listening to crap music. Like that Johnny Cash - Personal Jesus someone posted up there, that is genius, and still sounds great on a pair of cheap laptop speakers.
great article a while ago in the Word magazine (I think) about modern mastering techniques. Pretty much all modern music is compressed like crazy so that it sounds good on/ and the vocals can be heard clearly on/ a cheap mobile phone speaker or a transistor radio.
this definately means that quite a large slice of new music being produced now will not sound significantly better on an expensive system - because all that detail that the expensive system is deigned to pick out just isn't there anymore to be picked out
There are actually many options in the headphone market, depending on budget/perference, you just need to know where to look.
If you have a healthy £2k to play with and it were my money, I'd be looking at an offboard DAC for starters. Something like a Meier Audio StageDAC, or perhaps a CI Audio VDA2 are both excellent quality mid-range DACs. Your CD7300 should be fine as a digital transport for now, and I'm not convinced your money would be best spent changing it (unless you want to go with a streaming solution such as a Squeezebox linked to a PC or NAS box...let me know if that option interests you).
Next, amplification. Again, there are loads and loads of options out there to suit all sorts of budgets and listening preferences. Again, my money at this budget, I'd take a solid look at Woo Audio (if you like tube amps), in part because I already have one of their WA22 balanced amps & have been very impressed with it. At this budget you won't want to go balanced (expensive - think of it a bit like bi-amping speakers), and I've heard great things about the WA6SE amp, so you might want to look at that. So many other options too though...if you can get someone to build you a Millet Hybrid amp, they are superb for the money (a few hundred quid tops), and beat just about anything I've heard at that price. Mapletree Audio also make some lovely tube amps (Ear+ for example) that pair particularly well with Grado headphones in my experience. If solid state amps are your bag, Dacs Audio (a UK firm), are making some of the best I've heard. They're mainly a Pro audio company, but I tested a pre-production version of a consumer focused amp (based on their Pro "Headmaster" unit) and it was fantastic. I'd have one the day they are released (not sure when yet) if I were in the market for a new solid state amp.
Headphones. Ideally, again all imho, you want to leave a significant portion of your budget for the headphones. This is not a hard & fast rule, and can depend on the particular components you're looking at (eg Sennheiser HD800s really need great upstream components), but for the most part I think you'll find the best bang for your buck at the headphone end of the chain. Rather like speakers, the headphones will generally have more effect on the final sound that any other component in the chain, and therefore your choice will definitely come down to preference. Unfortunately, this is where living in the UK isn't ideal, as it's quite hard to get a listen to a lot of the stuff out there (applies to amps/dacs as well), and you may have already noticed that most of the companies I've mentioned are based in the USA. So, I reckon with this system you could be looking at spending between £600 and £1000 on headphones. That gets you into the ballpark of the Beyer T1, Sennheiser HD800 (careful with other components). I own a pair of HD800s and they are an amazing achievement...the sound isn't for everyone...very detailed, revealing, neutral...a lot of people like the more emphasised mids of something like a Grado RS1 or the HF2 (if you can find one). Definitely worth looking at the classifieds on the Headfi forum, as they tend to be quite busy & generally reliable.
This is really just a taster...there are TONS of other headphones, amps, dacs, sources etc out there that might suit you better. Really, the Head-Fi forum is the best place to research the whole topic. As a final curve-ball, you may even want to consider a portable rig that you can also use at home. JH Audio are producing some absolutely amazing custom IEMs (in ear monitors, moulded to your ear), specifically the JH13-Pro or JH16-Pro, which have made a lot of seasoned Head-fi'ers give up their big expensive home rigs. If you go this route, you could get a really nice portable source and amp plus some custom IEMs for well within your budget, and of course you can take it wherever you go. Something to think about anyway.
Edit - re your comment about masses of bass...remember, this is a headphone rig, you're dealing with the limitations of small drivers. Whilst some headphones will give you the illusion of a lot of bass, don't expect the earth to move!
So much effort for some headphones why it's actualy a no brainer.
V V V V V V V
For audiophile recs.
Spirit chaser > Dead can Dance
One Second > Yello
Try Easy Money off Ricky Lee Jones' 1st album - super clear sound &, more importantly a good song well played. Some of the single mike jazz recordings from the late '50's/ '60's sound great - Ben Webster meets Oscar Peterson comes to mind.
One good thing about headphones is that it removes the effect of the room from listening. They can also be great value - I bought some Stax headphones s/h for £50 in the '80's. you would still need to spend ££££ to improve upon how they sounded driven by an old Meridian CD player & power amp.
Spending on HiFi is a slippery slope - I have bought most of mine 2nd hand (Meridian & Quad fwiw), if you buy good quality British stuff the back up is generally good. A while ago the garage in garbage out (GIGO) argument was a good one, now with the advent of digital sources this argument is less persuasive - my front end is a meridian processor & 6 active speakers (775W in total) but the DVD player was £100 & I run music losslessly from my mac.
When you spend more effort listening to the equipment than the music you have gone too far IMHO.
yeah I think a nice Stax O2 would be out of the budget here, especially if you want to pair it with a decent (ie not Stax!) amp...imho :-)...and no money for source upgrade of any sort.
Stax's are awesome, very expensive though.
You can buy decent headphones for a lot less.
How good the soundquality of an audioset/ headphones has to be, also depends on how good your hearing is. Getting older and working in an industrial envoirment didn't my hearing any favours. Although it's not realy bad now, it isn't what it used to be 20 years ago either.
As in everything, some people seem to buy their equipment for the badge not for the way it sounds. Some components just don't mix, regardless how good or expensive they are.
Many thanks to those that have replied to my question, especially pedalhead for all the links. It seems the headfi forum is very technical & TBH a bit beyond me, but lots of research seems to be the order of the day, shame not many shops stock/demo headphone stuff.
One final question, will I ever be able to get the soundstage to apper infront of me, or will I have to live with vocalist being in the middle of my head?
Oh & sorry to the OP for the high-jack.
Cheers.
You need speakers!
My Martin Logans are elctrostaics, meaning the sound stage is quite unlike any traditional speaker.
You can physically point to musicians both front to back (which I have to say it the neatest effect) and side to side.
There is no source, it's very disorientating initially.
With the right sort of music it can be spellbinding and completely addictive!
"Now 45" especially!
Some 'phones are better with imaging than others, but the best way to achieve a speaker-like image is to use some kind of crossfeed...either hardware (built into some amps, or a separate standalone unit), or software (Foobar 2000 if using your PC as a source for example). Crossfeed essentially takes a little of each channel & puts it into the opposite channel (although that's a major simplification, most use some quite clever algorithms), which has the effect of bringing the soundstage more forwards & out. The Meier Audio and Headroom implementations of crossfeed are quite highly regarded. I used to own a balanced Headroom Ultra amp with crossfeed and it definitely does what it says on the tin. Good thing it's switchable though, as I preferred most modern music without crossfeed...I find many earlier stereo recordings tend to have very left/right imaging...early Beatles stereo stuff for example, and these benefit greatly from crossfeed imho.
Edit - Ti29er is right...headphones can never match the imaging offered by a good set of speakers. But then, I'm pretty sure the question is about headphones 
Thanks guys, I've looked into the headroom amps & I have fired off an email to ask their recommendation.
For films I use kef Ci eggs & a big Rel sub, it works brilliantly for that, but if I play music through that system I start to really pick holes in them, midbass & integration really suffer, but then I can't afford an extension on the house for a dedicated music system, one day I hope to be there...
Cheers.
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