I’d say even an uber hifi doesn’t need expensive cables mine certainly didn’t improve when I was asked to try some out. But then I’m cynical so wasn’t expecting an improvement.

that’s just inexperience talking – have you never played around with a multiband equaliser and noticed what difference you can make to the sound ?

No. I’ve got a HiFi. It doesn’t have a “multiband equalizer”. It plays what’s on the CD.

I understand rhythm/pace/timing, or soundstaging or detail retrieval or left/right balance.

“Luxurious warmth” is meaningless and test bench measurements are irrelevant, IMHO.

Woppit I’d disagree. It’s hard to quantify something as subjective as sound quality. Terms like warm, cold, full, lean have a meaning most people understand.
My Martin Logans were certainly less warm than my 3/5a’s if by warm you mean distorted and inaccurate, oddly the 3/5’s sounded absolutely fantastic on some stuff.

No. I’ve got a HiFi. It doesn’t have a “multiband equalizer”. It plays what’s on the CD.

as I say – inexperience – plus possible brain washing from flat-earth Naimers.

ok, switching to a modern equivalent – what about the eq something like a Lyndorf or Tact has to apply to a system to make it sound as it should in a room?

If your room is not the optimal shape and you haven’t applied extensive treatments to dampen down initial reflections then you are effectively using a multiband equaliser already, it is just that it is not adjustable and also adds some phasing artifacts.

Do any high end amps have equalizers? Even mid price ones?

Not really. It’s generally accepted that decent systems don’t need them.

some of the AV amps have room equalisation/correction – you plug in a mic positioned at your normal listening position and set the eq curves up.

Tact in the US and Lyndorf in europe produce more high end gear, but mostly targetted at music reproduction:

Home

I have a Tact 2.2 x although I may get rid and use Acourate on a PC into my Music First preamp as the sound quality is better.

Have a look at this page – it has more links:

Home

Not really. It’s generally accepted that decent systems don’t need them.

Assume that you are including the room as part of the ‘system’.

It is best to use room treatments as much as possible to reduce problems, particularly initial reflections.

However, unless your room is custom constructed and has the ideal dimensions to reduce/mitigate room modes, then room correction is needed.

The Tact amps will also phase correct if required and can be of great help if trying to set up a subwoofer per channel, which is pretty tough.

Tact actually prefer a couple of wide-range subwoofers placed in the corners of a room as they are easier to equalise like this, and they can control the crossover to the main speakers, which they can put much higher than 100Hz.

Plus the quality of the Lyngdorf/Tact amps is pretty good – the main problem is that they are pretty clueless about setting up decent sounding system at hifi shows, from the ones I have seen.

I’d rather spend thousands of pounds (if I was intending to spend that money) on going to see live performances of the artists I was interested in, rather than sitting on my own in a room listening to my ‘hi-fi’.

Stumpy what about doing both? What about people who are dead but made good music, what about great orchestras and conductors who recorded seminal performances.

All nice and hip to say I’ll just go live but frankly it’s limiting, a good hifi is a life improving thing.

Do any high end amps have equalizers? Even mid price ones?

You tend to buy the amp you like the sound of rather than one that needs EQ

I’d rather spend thousands of pounds (if I was intending to spend that money) on going to see live performances of the artists I was interested in, rather than sitting on my own in a room listening to my ‘hi-fi’.

I like both 🙂

Totally agree with you joolsburger

Not all live music sounds that great – even if attending is a great experience for other reasons.

You tend to buy the amp you like the sound of rather than one that needs EQ

has anyone ever bought an amp that needs EQ?

we are talking about the room needing EQ and/or treatment.

I use Audio Physic’s (my current speakers) methods for positioning speakers other than the usual furniture and stuff no room treatments required. Well worth a shot if its domestically acceptable. It does mean that your speakers are way out into the room though.

joolsburger – Member
Stumpy what about doing both? What about people who are dead but made good music, what about great orchestras and conductors who recorded seminal performances.

All nice and hip to say I’ll just go live but frankly it’s limiting, a good hifi is a life improving thing.

Yeah, agreed. Do both. Fine by me.
Not sure I agree about your last sentence which implies that hifi is a more life improving thing than a live performance…..

A live performance means you can meet up with friends, spend some time together, go and share a common interest, dance around, get squashed in a crowd, crowd surf, whatever floats your boat. For me, that is more life improving than sitting in a room on your own, wondering whether you speakers should be toed-in a bit more or whether X cable sounded better than Y.

When i was a student I used to regularly buy What Hi-Fi and lusted after mega-expensive stereos, while putting up with a NAD 3020i, Luxman D322 CD player & some TDL RTLII Mk2 speakers bi-wired with Cable Talk Talk 3. I still have them & the amp has been going strong for about 16-17 years, I think!
Of the systems I listened to, once you got above £6-700/component then the improvements were so small that you needed to spend lots of £’s to get a significant improvement.
And then you had to have a certain size room, with the components placed just so, you had to be a certain distance away etc. etc.

If you can afford to do it and have the time to just sit and listen, then that’s great. But there is no way I could spend thousands on something that rarely got listened to as it needs to be listened to, to fully appreciate it – if that makes sense?
I only find the time occasionally to sit & listen to my favourite CDs, which is a bit of a shame.

mudshark – Member
Not all live music sounds that great – even if attending is a great experience for other reasons.

Yep, most of the live music I have seen in the last 15 years or so, sounds bloody awful from a ‘quality’ point of view. But a lot of them have been amazing nights out with good friends, which means a lot more than whether the cymbals are a bit over sibilant.

Oh, and a mate of mine bought some second hand Micromega kit. Can’t remember what speakers he was running it with. But anyway, I went round to have a listen and to be honest, it sounded cak. I asked him if I could have a fiddle, turned it all off, re-wired the speakers in phase and had another listen. Sounded loads better, my mate was blown away. He was pleased with how it had sounded in the first place! I should have charged him!!! 🙂

has anyone ever bought an amp that needs EQ?

Damn right my old technics LOUDNESS button was amazing with a pair of 1210s plugged in and some sizable JBLs!

But we’re not talking Hifi here 🙂

no room treatments required

a strong statement – do you have any measurements to back that up – if I plugged in my Tact would it also reckon that there was nothing wrong with it?

where is your listening position in relation to the rear wall – that can make a fair bit of difference as well.

If you have a 3 piece suite and the sofa is in front of the speakers then pulling the armchairs in to eh sides of the speakers can be a good way of absorbing initial reflections with looking too weird.

this seems to be a very good budget way of making measurements:

http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/omnimic-precision-measurement-system.html

Beyond having a listening room as you’d expect, with soft furnishings, carpeted floor, back-baffling on the wall behind the speakers and an amplifier with a volume control, nothing else is needed. It sounds great. Musical, open and foot-tappingly entertaining.

Every time I bought any of the items, I’d gone to a good HiFi equipment shop, auditioned several items from different manufacturers in my price range, and picked the one which offered all the characteristics I was looking for. Sounded good in the shop, sounded good at home.

Sonic measurements and waffle about temperatures when you’re trying to describe music is all bull, IMO.

Nowt to do with the flatness or otherwise of the earth – everything to do with getting the point. Or should I say, the music.

No offense.

I don’t really get expensive hifi but I can appreciate good sound quality. I just use a set of powered studio monitors which sound more than good enough for me. Pretty flat and natural sound and they were only £250 for the pair. Could maybe do with a sub to go with them but can’t justify the expense of that.

Oh and terms like “warm” and “cold” are often used to describe guitar tones so the same probably applies to hifi. Most know people roughly what each one means so they do provide some point of reference.

well.. that was a very rewarding ride..

The autumnal vistas across the Devonshire moors were deep and rich in colour..

anything happened since I left..?

I got sucked in…

Lotsa folk got sucked in, despite a really unsubtle troll from Yunki, who I thought should have known better – I mean why would you want to behave like this? It’s not big or clever and I thought better of you.

Anyhow, any fule kno that interconnects can make improve a system massively.

I’m lucky my room is a great shape for hifi it was one of my criteria when I bought the house (really, sad I know) I’m sure if I measured things there are modes and reflections and all that but it sounds bloody great so I haven’t bothered. As for live versus recorded live is always the better experience IMHO but recorded usually sounds a lot better unless live is unamplified.

Holly **** 20 grand for 5 meters of PS cable, that is just plain rediculous, I am not an audiophile or into hifi at all but know a bit about high end cable (nothing to do with hifi).
A specialised company that we purchase “custom” cable’s from who design and manufacture to our spec for subsea oil and gas production equipment on average come in at about 20 grand a pop, and this is a cable that will 10 to 20 meters long have 6 SM fibers, maybe 20 screened TP’s for 232 comms, 2 quads and at least 4 conductors for 48vdc high capacity power plus spares and the expensive wet mateable subsea connectors that go on either end, they each take about a week to make have to be good to withstand pressures down to 3000msw give or take and have a lifespan of a minimum of 25 years.
Sheesh, still cant get over the price for a cable that must take at the longest an hour to make by hand (even if it is) and coated in what ever supposedly expensive material. 😯 😯
Anyone that spends that amount on a “home hifi system” needs a check up from the neck up! 😆

The flowery language I think developed from hifi reviewers, often because theres only so many ways you can say the fr has some peaks around x and rolls off around y before readers get bored. Some people seem convinced they are repeatably translateable into electronic characteristics, but it always sounded a bit vague to me.

Rule no 1) if you have spent more on your system that your content, you need to think hard about what you are trying to achieve… Do you actually like the gear more than the music…

Nice troll by Yunki btw

I like Hi-Fi threads. 😀

Thank you Yunki for to makes happy.

Mr Woppit – Member
that’s just inexperience talking – have you never played around with a multiband equaliser and noticed what difference you can make to the sound ?
No. I’ve got a HiFi. It doesn’t have a “multiband equalizer”. It plays what’s on the CD.

I understand rhythm/pace/timing, or soundstaging or detail retrieval or left/right balance.

What do you mean by ‘rhythm/pace/timing’ ? I can’t understand how it could be affected by an amp.

What do you mean by ‘rhythm/pace/timing’ ? I can’t understand how it could be affected by an amp.

yep – I never get that one either.

People used to like Mana hifi stands, saying they added to the rhythm and pace, but measurements showed they actually vibrated audibly and therefore emphasised aspects of the midrange.

The amps should either sound like “a straight wire with gain” or they they don’t work properly.