Are the big atheist beasts on holiday?

Can I have half a pound of anger please?

Anger weighs about the same as electricity. Which is magic, admittedly, so not a fair comparison 😉

Magnetism, OTOH, weighs considerably more than either aching grief or mild elation.

unlike the shitty sideline snipers

It’s really not. And the older I get, and the nearer death gets, the less I worry about it.

That’s how I feel too. I think it’s a normal state of affairs.

In 1907, an American physician, Dr MacDougall believed humans had a soul and attempted to observe the moment when a soul parts from the physical body…
…AIK, there have been no further studies on this

So no peer review then?

unlike the shitty sideline snipers

Over-reaction?

I am not very interested but rudeness begets rudeness and I fear you will look everywhere but yourself for the cause.

Been a good thread Have a nice day

The rudeness was entirely on your side by calling me shitty. I made a tongue-in-cheek joke about how chilled the thread was.
You’d never say that to someone in real life, I bet.

Aquinas’ Philisophical Theology sought to explain the nature of God, again from a Christian viewpoint. The mild issue I have with this tome (having skim read an academic summary, so may have got the wrong end of the stick), is his starting point that God exists in the first place, which is where I understand JY was referring to.

I can’t find any evidence of peer review to MacDougall’s research, but as molgrips said earlier, our understanding of observing mass has moved on somewhat since 1907

FWIW, my core belief is that the true nature of God lies within each of us, we are our own God’s. Through appropriate intent and attitude, we can shape our own reality. Okay, there’s tragedy and trauma occurring throughout the world and on a bigger scale, throughout our known Universe. Events that we cannot control, because they are outside a persons sphere of influence.

All that we can control is within us, our own sphere of influence and how we choose to react to stuff and take responsibility for our reactions. The God within if you like.

Badnewz – is this a new acquaintance you’ve made? You will get used to it….

FWIW, my core belief is that the true nature of God lies within each of us

Agreed and yet instead of looking for internal answers, so many prefer to waste their time looking for external truth and verification.

@slackalice, do you practice yoga out of interest (I’ve not read the whole thread). Over the past 10 years I’ve tried pretty much everthing (atheism, Christianity, and more recently buddhism via yoga).
Undoubtedly the practices of Yoga are very effective, and the people who subscribe to them in my experience live healthier, happier lives than the Christians I know. Some of the local Christian churches where I live are now running yoga classes.

Good call slackalice. Very much how I veiw things.

I think the thread has gone off in a strange direction. The OP, I thought, was asking for questions to answer to do with religion – whereas the thread is talking a lot about what god is.

I don’t really link the two. The very existence of the universe suggests something created it, there could be a creator I suppose, don’t really see how anyone can argue strongly either way that something conscious could be behind it, somehow.

Religion on the other hand, is about the most bizarre thing I’ve ever been part of.

I’ve got a great friend who’s a veggie and a RC. She believes it all, Old and New, including literal understanding of the Eucharist and transubstantiation. [cheapshot] Veggie Monday to Saturday, cannibal on a Sunday.[/cheapshot]

She’s got a PhD, yet simply won’t entertain any discussion that she may be wrong… I respect her choices, but can’t understand how she refuses to question it – that shouldn’t be a contradiction. Faith, she’ll say.

Blind faith, on any level is not healthy for those who seek to experience life, IMHO of course.

I don’t practice yoga, it is however something I feel I would benefit from as flexibility in mind and body leads to health and happiness 🙂

iamtheresurrection – Member
I think the thread has gone off in a strange direction. The OP, I thought, was asking for questions to answer to do with religion – whereas the thread is talking a lot about what god is.

I don’t think it strange, I see the original OP as being the catalyst for discussion, especially as one of the recurring questions were asking about the existence of and nature of God.

I agree with your sentiments on religion per se, I view them as doctrines and as was mentioned before, they have since been corrupted to enable personal power, greed and control, which is, again IMHO, not the best attitude and intent that we are capable of.

Over the past 10 years I’ve tried pretty much everthing (atheism, Christianity, and more recently buddhism via yoga).

I must admit, I’ve never consciously ‘tried’ atheism. Although I’m atheistic/agnostic – I never viewed this state as a comparative religion or philosophy that I could maybe try out?

I’m about 45 minutes into the Brand/Cox podcast.

Prof Cox has superhuman levels of patience. Brand struggles with GCSE level physics.

I must admit, I’ve never consciously ‘tried’ atheism. Although I’m atheistic/agnostic – I never viewed this state as a comparative religion or philosophy that I could maybe try out?

In terms of practising Atheism in my case, it mean’t challenging and arguing with people of faith. I was quite the New Atheist. The problem is I soon ran out of people to argue with as there aren’t many people of faith around these days where I live.
And also not praying at funerals:-

On further reflection as to how this thread has developed from its original request, is that the nature of it asking for questions, without the resultant need for immediate answers has managed to temper the usual obvious statements that these threads tend to go down.

Which is why I’m enjoying engaging in this one and refuse to engage with the previous threads on this subject.

but can’t understand how she refuses to question it

I can. Ever have a question to which you don’t actually want to know the answer?

I can. Ever have a question to which you don’t actually want to know the answer?

That’s why I’ve not weighed myself for three years.

molgrips – Member
but can’t understand how she refuses to question it
I can. Ever have a question to which you don’t actually want to know the answer?

I’m sure the answer must be yes, at least for a snapshot in time. Not sure it’s yes on any issue for a long time though.

I’d understand if that was the only thing underpinning her faith, but it’s any question which could be asked on any topic.

I understand the point your insinuating, but I don’t think she’s frightened to lose her faith. I don’t think…

The Brand/Cox interview is on YouTube now: https://youtu.be/6iVbBd9h7W8

badnewz – Member
I can. Ever have a question to which you don’t actually want to know the answer?
That’s why I’ve not weighed myself for three years.

😆

miketually, did it get better than the first 45mins?

Fides quaerens intellectum.

“I do not seek to understand in order that I may believe, but rather, I believe in order that I may understand”

“Whereof one cannot speak, thereof must one be silent.”

SR your comments please?

I’m late to the party but do have one question I’d love answered.

Genesis and the creation story is provably false as is the Garden of Eden etc. Taking this to be proven, why was Jesus killed to absolve people of sins first brought into the world when Eve ate the fruit.

My second question but with a much more debatable answer is, if Christians get to pick and choose which parts of the bible to take literally, which to disregard and which to take as gospel (pun intended), where is the difference with being completely agnostic, anti-theist etc? If I’m given 1,000 contrasting laws to live by and I get to choose which are important, I’m no different to a theist who does the same with their book. The important difference is that I’ve chosen to live according to certain self-imposed principles and I don’t have any of the drawbacks of religion.

miketually, did it get better than the first 45mins?

I wanted to shout “Parklife!” every time Brand stopped talking…

Thesis anti-thesis synthesis. Consciousness is the construct out of which arises material substance.

Parklife!

I get up on a Sunday, with a feeling of intense frustration, and post to the singletrack forum. It gives me a sense of release and satisfaction.
Parklife!

Badnewz – is this a new acquaintance you’ve made? You will get used to it..

Jesus is proud of the way you practice what he taught- the turning the other cheek, the treatment of your “enemies” etc- it was all about vicarious passive aggression from the lord wasnt it

Your ability to not do what you preach even enters the spiritual realm so at least no one can accuse you of not being consistent

I was referring to myself there btw

I think we knew

FWIW I also enjoy yoga and meditation

Not that I think that i will get to nirvana or escape the circle of life as i dont believe in such things and clearly i have someway to go to achieve zen like levels of chillness
PARKLIFE

Not that I think that i will get to nirvana

You’ve been to Burnley.
I imagine it’s a pretty much the same.
🙂

Has anyone got a copy of that podcast with RB replaced by the sound of fingernails on a blackboard?

slackalice “In quantum physics, it has long been noted that the observer changes the reality” which is fine is this observed universe but in the concept of multiple universe/dimensions the “I” is irrelevant.

wearheredwannabe 😀

Are the big atheist beasts on holiday?

Nope, religion is just a sideshow. They probs cant be arsed with your dudgeons and dragons poo haa.

If it makes you happy though I’m in 100%

slackalice – Member

tjagain – Member
I have seen hundreds of people die ( its my job to look after dying people). I have seen no difference in attitudes to dying from religious or non religious.

Interesting, how would you describe the common attitudes you observed?[/quote]

I don’t think there is any common attitudes amongst the dying. some go peacefully and content. some go raging and angry, some happy to be meeting with their loved ones again in some other place some its just a light going out. some want to fight to the end and some want to slip away quietly and some can’t wait for it all to end. I haven’t seen any trends between the religious and the non religious that would single out belief as a significant factor in how good a death you have

some of the worst deaths I have seen have been religious folk because their religious attitudes stop them having the best palliative care / makes them continue with futile treatment leaving them to take longer to die uncomfortable and unhappy. The two I can think of in that light were muslim tho who seem to be more against stopping futile treatment than anyone else. But I have also seen non religious fight to the end and suffer unnecessarily. thats their choice and one I must and do respect. Its not my views that count – its the views of the person dying.

For the religious I often refer them to their spiritual advisor and often its a comfort to them but occasionally it has the opposite effect.

so for the individual religion can be a comfort to them when they are dying but from what I have seen it makes no real difference across many folk whether yo are religious or not. Good symptom control, their own attitudes, attitudes towards treatment especially futile treatment etc make a huge difference.

I have seen religious folk refuse a DNACPR statement ( Do Not Attempt Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation) Which means they die with someone jumping on their chest and shoving tubes down their throat rather than floating away on some nice drugs. But I have also seen non religious folk do this. Dying under cpr is never a good death

What really makes me very angry and probably part of the reason I am so anti religion in general ( but not for an individual who wants that spiritual support) Is that interference in the political sphere from those professing religion prevent me from ensuring good deaths for some – and yes there is such a thing as a good death. “peaceful, dignified, pain free and with your loved ones around you”

A good death is something I believe to be a human right. I will do my very best to enure goofd deaths for those in my care. I will do my very best to die at a time and place of my choosing

Well you did ask 😉 Its something I am very passionate about. someone died in my care today so its a bit raw given I did not get it quite right in this case

Nope, religion is just a sideshow. They probs cant be arsed with your dudgeons and dragons poo haa.
If it makes you happy though I’m in 100%

I know guys on crack speak more sense than you!

Slackalice / anyone else interested I have a lot more I can add around the discussion of dying and how religion impacts upon it but perhaps not appropriate to this thread. If anyone wants to hear it ask me / start a thread

I’m lumbered with being an agnostic, dyslexic, insomniac. I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog.

I’ve felt lost amongst a relatively small number of people here on earth, how will I feel in Heaven amongst an infinite crowd?