Been applying for jobs
Most application forms ask for a couple of references, no problem.
But they also ask if they can contact them before an interview?

Why?

Seems like a waste of everyone’s time? What if you don’t want to give me an interview? Wastes your time asking for them and my current/ex bosses time writing them?

Even if I get an interview and that’s when you ask (though that’s not what the question asks, still…), is the reference part of the selection procedure?
If not, you just got maybe 8 sets of 2 people writing stuff for you, no benefit to them.

Seems more normal to say job offers will be dependent on satisfactory references?

And why ask me to bring proof of right to work to the interview and copies of my degrees?
If you give me the job, sure….
But it’s just one more unnecessary thing to do for all the unsuccessful people, Why make 8 people dig through all their files? They’ve already spent hours on the application, more hours preparing a presentation for the interview, researching the company more, practicing interview questions, putting their glad rags on, travelling to the office etc.
All on the 1 in 8 chance they’ll get the job. No second place, no runners up prizes.

If you get the job obviously you need to show this, but stop wasting people’s time….

Will HR monkeys be first against the wall?

They need all the information for bureaucratic paper work. i.e. to look after themselves, not you.

The entire process is for HR to justify their existence on the pretext that if you cannot endure their application procedures you do not deserve a job with them.

Bottom line is that the whole process is for them. NOT you.

Many years ago I was even told how to shortlist people. i.e. tick box approach. We could not apply common sense because the documents did not permit us to. Tick, tick, tick … approved.

Therefore, you have to bear with them if you want the job or simply look elsewhere.

Job application is very “mechanistic” nowadays where common sense sometimes no longer apply. Tick all the boxes you get the job.

It would amaze me if they didn’t want references first. Why bother with an interview to find that the first rate form filler if a lazy sod.
I honestly have never heard of references being called for afterwards. Bit late then isn’t it?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5A5Mb__fiA[/video]

When I wanted to shortlist applicants I wanted to use the Interweb to find out more details before I proceed … not anymore … we were told that was illegal.

Hr job creation innit.

They shouldn’t ask

Politely tell them that you are very happy for references to be contacted once they are at the offer stage

They shouldn’t ask

Politely tell them that you are very happy for references to be contacted once they are at the offer stage

Loads do though.

I’m out of work so it makes no odds to me whether my ex-boss has to waste his time giving 101 references so I just fill them in.

If you’re still in a job and your boss doesn’t know you’re looking elsewhere then just tick the box saying “it’s not ok to contact them before the interview”.

It would amaze me if they didn’t want references first. Why bother with an interview to find that the first rate form filler if a lazy sod.
I honestly have never heard of references being called for afterwards. Bit late then isn’t it?

Afterwards is the usually way of doing things, otherwise your current boss would know you’re thinking of leaving (thus potentially making things awkward at best, far worse if your boss is an arse).

teamhurtmore – Member

They shouldn’t ask

Politely tell them that you are very happy for references to be contacted once they are at the offer stage

Not going to happen.

Your application will be rejected with the excuse “You are good but there are other applicants better suited to us or better than you” sort of things.

One of the manager I work with refused instantly if the Procedure is not followed strictly. If I tried to say something it is seen as favoritism and bias for certain applicants.

The latest thing is wanting 3 verified refs from previous employers,fine ,but the managers you worked under have left the company all they get is a standard HR ref of no real value as it’s written by some lowlife in HR who doesn’t know you from Adam.

Is that really of any value ?

The solution to this OP is to get a written reference in advance and give that to those asking in advance. I would not allow references to be contacted in advance, as above you also need to decide post the interview if you wish to take the application forward. From what I understand a number of my past bank employers will only provide a reference of the form date joined / left / last job title. Its a CYA thing as they don’t want the liability of being legally challenged.

Most references are:

“I can confirm My yourguitarhero worked here from x/20?? to x/20?? as a jet fighter pilot/IT guy”

I don’t really need a solution, I just tick the box saying no.

I just don’t understand why they bother asking

mountainman – Member
Is that really of any value ?

For us we have a tick box sheet for shortlisting applicants. Tick whatever matches the tick box.

If you are applying for jobs they have the job specification and the right person profile you need to tick all those boxes in your letter & CV otherwise missing the tick box will eliminate your application. i.e. it is better if you can spell it out for them to match the key words to the tick box. If you can do so you are in.

We don’t ask for references until we’ve offered them a job. Offer is subject to satisfactory refs, obvs.

We don’t pursue references til at least the interview stage. Reason being, it’d be a load of work and we’re too lazy.

chewkw must work for the shittiest employer in the entirety of the UK. His manager sounds like a bellend of gargantuan proportions too.

Suppose it at least explains two things a) how he got a job in the first place and b) how his “unusual” view of business/industry/the workplace has developed.

We don’t ask for references until we’ve offered them a job. Offer is subject to satisfactory refs, obvs.

. Our application forms ask for refs but they aren’t taken up till we’re ready to make the job offer. If someone specified that they didn’t want us contacting refs until job offer it wouldn’t make any odds to me.

a match made in heaven then

IME references are taken up after deciding they want you. They have to be from someone you’ve worked for and not just a company HR dept – they don’t want any legal concerns hence just saying the basics. References are box ticking – they don’t make a decision based on how good they are they just want to make sure you’re roughly who/what you say you are.

The reason they ask for right to work is that if you haven’t got ‘it’ then there is no point going any further.

Seems like a waste of everyone’s time? What if you don’t want to give me an interview? Wastes your time asking for them and my current/ex bosses time writing them?

Different employers go about it different ways, but they all need to narrow down to a shortlist. Would you prefer them to shortlist by box ticking or reading references? It’s in everybody’s interest to shortlist the right people; inviting people for interview if they aren’t suitable wastes everybody’s time.

And why ask me to bring proof of right to work to the interview and copies of my degrees?

Why not? Assuming you have them, it only takes seconds to put them in your case when you go. Some places like to offer the job there and then. Making offers conditional on subsequent information can be a minefield for the employer.

Well there’s some utter bobbins being spouted above. First proof of right to work in the UK, a legal requirement so makes sense to ask for up front or they could be wasting their time intervirewing as they can’t employ you. Degree certificate up front, Ok if that’s a requirement it’s not an onerous thing to expect you to bring that. References, references are relatively meaningless, asking for them upfront is pointless, people with a brain will politely decline. References have to be from someone who you worked for, not HR, rubbish, many companies have policy of only issuing standard factual references from HR and all the new employer wants is confirmation of salary, duration of employment etc to confirm you haven’t lied. Old school character references are pointless and unreliable, not every previous boss is objective, trustworthy or honest, they may be desperate to get rid and give a glowing reference, they may be miserable sods who take offence at the mere suggestion you’d want to leave or you may have had a genuine personality clash with a previous manager. And as mentionned above what if you can’t get references, I’ve not had a functioning boss for over a year, my direct manager, the UK ops director left 18 months ago and then his boss, the global ops director quit a year ago, neither have been replaced. I’m not sure the company chairman or CEO would be keen to provide references.

Don’t give recruitment agencies named references – they are just looking for leads on who they can badger with their incessant calls.

Safeguarding/Safer Recruitment says that we have to ask for references before interview.

We contact the referees first with a standardised form for them to complete. Every so often I get some difficult head who refuses to use it, and either sends over a written statement, or simply says they don’t have time, can’t be arsed, etc etc. Mainly American schools that have this attitude, British ones are generally on the ball of what is needed for safer recruiting.