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  • Asaulting a police officer…advice please
  • tpbiker
    Free Member

    Firstly I should say, this is absolutely not relating to me…

    About 8 months ago a mate got lifted by the police. According to him he was with a girl who was pretty hammered and the police showed up. They tried to pick her up and he got a bit mouthy (he can get beligerent when drunk no doubt about it)

    Anyway he got arrested for ‘resisting arrest’ something he absolutely denies, was sent to the cells till 4 am then heard nothing more about it. was told at the time he didn’t need a lawyer.

    Anyway, yesterday he gets a letter saying hes having to go to court as he has been charged with assaulting an office. Apparently he pushed him or something. Hes absolutely addament he didn’t and i beleive him, i’m sure he would have mentioned it by now if he had. Also its not in his nature, despite being a mouth so and so at times.

    There are no cctv cameras in the area it happened, and no witnesses other than the girl who has been discreddited in the report as apparently having been ‘frothing at the mouth’. The girl actually got drug tested at the time and was completely clean so I doubt this is true.

    What are his options, given its his word vs two coppers 8 months after the event.

    Will there be a jury, or will the judge just side with the police and he better start preparing for a 6 month stint in saughton

    ta

    kcr
    Free Member

    I’d say discussing an alleged offence on the internet before a trial probaby won’t help your friend. He needs professional legal advice.

    siwhite
    Free Member

    It’ll be a Magistrates Court hearing initially – most unlikely he will go to Crown, so no jury.

    Get him to a good criminal defence firm. Being persuaded not to have a solicitor in Custody is a breach of PACE. A solicitor will almost certainly find a chink in a case like this and be able to negotiate the charge down to (most likely) resist / obstruct a constable, which is a very minor offence.

    If he is previously of good character he is most unlikely to go to prison for this.

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    RobHilton
    Free Member

    What he said.

    Also, if you get arrested you should speak to a solicitor regardless.

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    What is Pace?

    Just asking for advice kcr, I doubt the magistrate will read this.

    You are right about the lawyer, hes seeing one on monday

    Ming the Merciless
    Free Member

    Get a good solicitor.

    Always ask for a duty solicitor if arrested and there is NEVER a quiet chat down at the station. If they want to talk to you about something always have representation.

    Gary_C
    Full Member
    deadkenny
    Free Member

    +1 Solicitor and as above. Hopefully would argue what a waste of money and time it would be bringing it to court also. Utterly pointless unless the cop claims to have suffered an injury. Given being told no solicitor then surely whole thing gets thrown out anyway.

    crankboy
    Free Member

    Assault PC is summary only so magistrates trial not I jury , Max from memory 6 months easily Google able . guidelines for this from memory wold be non custodial, girl will be an OK witness , was he interviewed at station ? I would guess not so lack of sol is in practical terms irrelevant.

    I know this is important to your mate but in the grand scheme of things its small potatoes and will be very much governed by local vibe rather than national policy . round where I practice if it as you say , I’d start demanding custody area CCTV officers discipline and complaint records and leaning on prosecutors I imagine if I did that it would go down to a resist or drop . in other areas who knows . Your mate is best relying on his lawyer who will know the local turf better .
    If he is on west Yorks I can hook him up with either my firm or another I trust .

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    What do you mean by drop crankboy?

    Hes in Edinburgh im afraid.

    irc
    Full Member

    SCots law if it happened in Scotland. So either District Court or Sheriff Court. No jury in either case.

    By the way he wasn’t arrested for “resisting arrest.” So he was arrested for something else. Breach of the peace?

    The resist and police assault came during and after the arrest.

    Best advice – get lawyer. Sentence depends on previous convictions and what he is convicted for. First offender – most likely a fine at worst. Assuming the “aasault” was a push or similar during arrest.

    Minor resist arrests/police assaults are often dropped when there is a plea to a lesser charge.

    But if he is a first offender he isn’t wanting any conviction at all.

    Get a lawyer.

    crankboy
    Free Member

    Drop means not pursue forget , withdraw offer no evidence .

    My speculation is scots cases of assault PC more likely to be pursued than where I work.

    fisha
    Free Member

    As already said, this should all be discussed with a solicitor… your friend should now be getting in touch with one at the earliest opportunity.

    As for the charge … We weren’t there … but:

    Reading between the lines on how you’ve described it, it smacks of your friend being drunk and remembering a version of events that suits his cause rather than what may have happened. The reality is that people’s recollections of events, and the actual reality of what has happened can be vastly different… even with the best intentions. I’ve spoken to people who have been adamant of being pushed over and suffering bad injury, yet CCTV evidence has shown that they fell of their own accord, and no assault having taken place. In such a case, the mind fills the gaps of what suits them.

    At a guess:

    The police turned up, likely with some cause/reason to check if all was OK, you’re friend turned on the beligerant chat, and it spiralled from there … ending up with him being breached … and at the point of arrest, he’s thought he’s having none of it, and resisted it. Pushing an officer away can constitute an assault, and its possible this is where its come from.

    In general terms, I’ve not come across resist / assault charges where there hasn’t been the events to support it. Its not something you just chuck in to a report to work it up someone.

    Now you’re friend may not like that version of events, but there is every possibility that is how it happened.

    He should speak to a solicitor.

    sobriety
    Free Member

    Now you’re friend may not like that version of events, but there is every possibility that is how it happened.

    Or at least that’s how the police officer remembers it. The truth, as always, will lie somewhere between the two…

    fisha
    Free Member

    Absolutely. 3 sides to every story.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    “The truth, as always, will lie somewhere between the two…”

    Hmmm. I’m going with the sober bloke doing his job as the most accurate version.

    nick1962
    Free Member

    Didn’t he get a charge sheet when released from police custody after being arrested and charged?

    Lifer
    Free Member

    +1 surely he would have been charged with assaulting police at the time?

    chewkw
    Free Member

    If he is found guilty he is “screwed” with traveling or working abroad.

    fisha
    Free Member

    Lifer.

    A charge is preferred by the police in the report to the procurator fiscal, the fiscal then assess the report and will then decide on the final charge. It is possible for the pf to change the charge from what is reported to them by police. So even if the police caution and charge at the station, it can change by the time it gets to court.

    thegreatape
    Free Member

    My speculation is scots cases of assault PC more likely to be pursued than where I work.

    Having worked both sides of the border, I agree with this.

    Lack of solicitor is irrelevant, as in Scotland your right to consult with a solicitor only applies if the police wish to question you (I.e. interview you), which they won’t for police assault or resist arrest.

    Didn’t he get a charge sheet when released from police custody after being arrested and charged?

    Not in Scotland.

    better start preparing for a 6 month stint

    Unless he’s actually caused injury, and assuming he has no sort g if I can’t record, it’ll be a fine at worst.

    fisha
    Free Member

    Lack of solicitor is irrelevant, as in Scotland your right to consult with a solicitor only applies if the police wish to question you (I.e. interview you), which they won’t for police assault or resist arrest.

    Yup. I’ll just add though that when someone is being processed at the station they do get asked whether they want a solicitor informed of the arrest. (Just don’t get to speak to them unless as above, its prior to being questioned)

    jonba
    Free Member

    Seek professional advice, both about the prosecution and his drinking problems.

    supercarp
    Full Member

    perhaps your friend should not drink when he goes out so no sympathy as he only has himself to blame.

    Also no pace in Scotland

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Having worked a little with Edinburgh cops they don’t make frivolous arrests IMO and they are very very tolerant to drunk idiots ‘cos its a pain to lock them up. Some people seem to think a cop cannot lay hands on you – they can but – if you lay hands on a cop is resisting arrest / police assault.

    I suspect there will be CCTV certainly of his actions / behaviour / demeanour in the station. The number of folk I saw who came in fighting drunk but in the morning wondered why they had been arrested was a lot and IMO everyone should get a present of the video of their actions in the station – it would shock a few of them

    Unless you pal has good witnesses and can show why this charge is not founded he is going to be convicted

    poah
    Free Member

    if you are arrested you have to be read your rights and you will be offered a solicitor but you don’t have to talk to one obviously. If someone is drunk I doubt they can be interviewed, was your friend actually interviewed? however, your friend should consult a solicitor ASAP.

    rene59
    Free Member

    Having worked a little with Edinburgh cops they don’t make frivolous arrests IMO

    My experience of Strathcylde’s finest is the opposite.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    No need to be interviewed if the case is not in doubt. Its almost absolute liability – touch a copper, get arrested for assaulting an officer.

    How it usually goes down is cop tells drunk idiot to “go away you are being a drunken idiot” or similar. Drunk idiot get all belligerent and refuses. They get 3 chances to do what the cop says then if they don’t comply they get lifted for breach of the peace. Fight at all with the cops they get done for police assault as well.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    rene – I was working in the cop shop weekend nights. With only around half a dozen officers on duty and with it taking an hour or two of their time to deal with the drunk they have arrested they do everything they can to avoid arresting them ‘cos it takes them off the streets

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    How it usually goes down is cop tells drunk idiot to “go away you are being a drunken idiot” or similar. Drunk idiot get all belligerent and refuses. They get 3 chances to do what the cop says then if they don’t comply they get lifted for breach of the peace. Fight at all with the cops they get done for police assault as well.

    +1

    I’ve been a bit rowdy and drunk sometimes when at Uni, still somehow remember to apologise to Officers, smile and leave immediately – when they turn up.

    I really don’t get the people who get belligerent with them, it’s only going to end one way – getting restrained with your face down in your own vomit.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    When a cop says ” you are a drunken idiot go away” the correct response is ” yes sir” and walk away as well as you can manage

    Cougar
    Full Member

    I really don’t get the people who get belligerent with them,

    Some people are just wired that way. I get drunk, I get giggly and then fall asleep. For some folk, it’s not a good night unless it ends with someone getting glassed.

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    in fairness, like in all walks of life, some coppers can be dicks. I remember the only time i was ‘arrested’, frog marched out the pub and thrown in the back of the van for 90 min as i matched the description of someone who had just attacked a lad in the vicinity. The coppers were total dicks, and I didn’t get a hint of an appology when the victim eventually turned up to ID me…obviously exonerating me fully.

    not the norm, but lets not pretend that they dont exist.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Edinburgh cops had a good phrase for it in the usually sarcastic cop manner
    “drinking on an empty head”

    ampthill
    Full Member

    rene – I was working in the cop shop weekend nights. With only around half a dozen officers on duty and with it taking an hour or two of their time to deal with the drunk they have arrested they do everything they can to avoid arresting them ‘cos it takes them off the streets

    I have a friend in blue. He has often said “Anything to avoid an arrest”. It just more paper work

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I get drunk, I get giggly and then fall asleep

    I read that as “I get drunk, I get jiggy and then fall asleep” 😕

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    So an update on this one..

    Despite the jumped up charges and absolutely zero evidince they decided to pursue this prosecution..

    My mate hired a lawyer, however 3 days before the court case he chickened out, and offered a plea bargain of guilty of ‘breach of peace’ rather than face the Assault charge. (he still denies any wrongdoing)

    Anyway his lawyer took the plea deal to the proc fiscal who took one look at the case and threw it out as a waste of time and no case to answer, with absolutely no evidence by prosecution on offer. He didn’t even want to accept the Plea deal..

    So a good result for my mate on one hand, but this has caused him 8 months of sleepless nights, having to alert his Work to the charge, and over a grand and a half in Legal Fees

    Absolute joke…is there any way to file a comlaint, given hes significantly out of pocket ?

    cornholio98
    Free Member

    Tell your mate to write it off and move on. What does he hope will be the ultimate outcome? How much extra effort is going to be expended to get this?

    breatheeasy
    Free Member

    As above. Walk away, maybe stop the drinking that caused the issue in the first place and he’ll get the 1500 quid back over a bit of time in less lager tokens.

    devash
    Free Member

    Good news for your mate, but he’s learned an expensive lesson; don’t get belligerent with the police. They have to deal with that crap day in day out and it sounds as if they wanted to make an example of your mate.

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