arrrrgh Inbred and chain suck!!!

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arrrrgh Inbred and chain suck!!!

65 posts & 28 voices | Started 3 years ago by renton | Latest reply from johnners

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chainsuck is for tards

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renton - Member

so ive just come back from a ride up the wyre forest where ive suffered no end with bloody chain suck ,to the point where my frame is probably getting worryingly thin in that area??

now compared to my mates spesh my chain set seem to be quite close to the frame which might be contributing to the problem??

i run a ht2 lx chainset with the spacers in the correct position (2 driveside and 1 non)

anyone else notice their chain sets close to the frames they ride??

also can i just say that the wyre forest and kenda small block8's don't work in this weather and i spent more time on my arse than i did riding!!

cheers

steve

Posted 3 years ago #
robdob - Member

You can try to space the chainset out a bit further and that will help. However it is a problem, which Brant knew about but didn't bother sorting out until the latest frames (if it is sorted now). My brothers (peterpoddy) chainstay snapped because of the clearance issue and I sold my bike before the frame was wrecked. My bro got Argos cycles to put a new chainstay on which was designed better but that was an expensive option of £150+ with the respray.

Posted 3 years ago #
robdob - Member

I have seen people modify the frame using a block of wood and a worryingly large hammer, to create an indent so the rings have more clearance. Although I can't see why anyone should have to do that

Posted 3 years ago #
PJay - Member

As I understand it the 'problem' is the lack of clearance which can lead to a lot of damage when chainsuck occurs rather than something wrong with the frame that actually causes chainsuck (unless there is some known problem that I'm not aware of). The new 456s have an indent in the chainstay which presumably improves clearance.

I have a spot of bother with chainsuck when my 853 Inbred was new (and apparently new chainsets can suck a bit until they wear in - or so I've heard) but I ended up changing the aluminium granny and middle rings on my XT chainset to cheaper, steel Deore ones and things seem to have been fine since. Oddly I also found that a change of lube helped too.

I've now got the chainstay armoured with inner tube, webbing and zipties just in case.

Posted 3 years ago #
nickc - Member

chainsuck doesn't happen "because" of frame design, although some frames don't help. It's caused by worn chain rings.

Posted 3 years ago #
knottie8 - Member

I have a row for cable ties on the cHainstay behind the front rings to protect it ! My 456 had sucked chain since I built it WITH NEW CHAIN AND GEARS.

Posted 3 years ago #
robdob - Member

Well both me and my brother had problems with brand new chainsets, so worn rings are not the problem. We all get chainsuck, but never notice it because if a frame is designed with adequate clearance the chain merely drops back into place. However the inbreds clearance is only 1-2mm at best so the chain gets jammed between the chsinset and chainrings. As you pedal the hardened steel chain gouges the softer steel chainstay. Do this a few times and it's goodbye chainstay.

I never had a problem with any other frame running exactly the same kit, so it figures the frame design is to fault. And this is backed up by quite a few people and openly admitted by the designer on STW. The attitude Brant had about the issue was such that I will never buy another one of his designs as I haven't the money to waste on cack designs that destroy themselves.

No problem with my Specialized now!!

Posted 3 years ago #
HTTP404 - Member

I've never put chainsuck down to frame design. Muddied chains, worn chains, stiff links, worn chainrings - yes. But not the frame.

Posted 3 years ago #
Stoner - Member

Id start with checking you had a short enough chain.

otherwise here's a couple of solutions

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tektro/anti-chain-suck-plate-ec005423

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-Third_Eye-Third-Eye-Chain-Watcher-6238.htm

Posted 3 years ago #
robdob - Member

Please read the other posts before you reply!!!

The frame design does not cause the chainsuck at all. However when it does happen, which it does to us all, the clearance issue means the chain gets jammed , damaging the frame as a result. Most frames have good clearance so you never notice the chainsuck when it happens.

Posted 3 years ago #
robdob - Member

Stoner, if I had kept the frame I would have bought the top one. I didn't realize people still made them!! Old school!!

Posted 3 years ago #
PJay - Member

I got one of those Ringle anti-chainsuck plates but the Inbred's extra wide, bridgeless stays make it hard to fit one. Equally I've heard that they can cause more harm than good as they can actually twist when hit, jamming things in harder.

I think that there are supposedly two types of chainsuck, a shifting type where the chain gets pulled up during over-shifts, which the Deda Dog Fang thing is supposed to deal with (I've got an N-Gear Jump Stop fitted) and a different type where the chain fails to disengage from the chaninrings and gets pulled up past the stays in which case you'll have to had something like the plate to knock it off.

Posted 3 years ago #
Stoner - Member

that one's the tektro copy of what I imagine was the original Ringle one.

One of the easier bits of niche-kit to fabricate at home too.

One thing about the Inbred clearance is that without the minimal clearance you wont get the largest tyre clearance given the limitatinos of standard 47.5mm chainline standards. Hence the plate chainstay that Brant has incorporated into his new ragley to maximise the driveside tyre clearance which is limited by IS chsinline standards. The only previous solution was to use dimples on inside and outside of the chainstay which is what I have on my DN6 inbred, which incidentally has no chainsuck marks.

Posted 3 years ago #
oldfart - Member

just be glad it ONLY happened on a fairly cheap frame.imagine how gutted you would be if like me it happened on a Cove Hummer resulting on a trip back to Litespeed for new chainstays!!!!!!cost ? £300 !!!! that i had to pay for because Cove wouldn't admit they had a problem with clearance and laid the blame at my door.lack of maintenance apparently .which i strongly denied .how could they know what my maintenance schedule (anal) is like? i've found since that i am not alone BTW.

Posted 3 years ago #
oldfart - Member

Apparently Tektro jobber not currently available.

Posted 3 years ago #
Stoner - Member

available from the states.
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=tektro+chain&_sacat=See-All-Categories

although as I say, probably one of the easiest things to knock-up at home in the shed.

Posted 3 years ago #
renton - Member

i was led to believe that i had one of the newer frames (08 model)

if i was to "modify" the chain stay using a lump of wood would that help or am i likely to damage the frame even more and weaken it??

ive tried wedging my chainstay protector down behind it but the chain just cuts through it??

the only other thing i can do is move the spacer over from the bottom bracket so i have 3 on the drive side?? is this a good idea?

Posted 3 years ago #
Stoner - Member

a g-clamp and some bits of wood would work. In fact I think that's how Brant did his prototypes.

Posted 3 years ago #
2unfit2ride - Member

I used to have issues with my 'original' stiffee. (some have the same issues with the hummer)
I think I have been around long enough to work out that all frames designed for 2.5-2.7 tyres will have problems with chain clearance, hence the suck in British conditions.

Unless rear wheels are spaced further apart & BB are made wider then I think the best idea is to stay with 'normal' tyres.

Posted 3 years ago #
Simon - Member

"Stoner - Member
a g-clamp and some bits of wood would work. In fact I think that's how Brant did his prototypes. "

That's how I stopped the chain jamming on my 456.
Photo below was taken before I re-painted the chainstay, but shows the indent I put in with the g-clamp.

Posted 3 years ago #
brant - Member

All the new Ragley's (ti, steel and alloy) have the plate chainstay design which came from my wish to do a ti frame with big tyre and chainring clearance.

I never got chainsuck once on my Summer Season though, but perhaps that's because it was an FSA chainset with steel rings, and I was running a 105 short arm road mech.

If you try and mash your way out of chainsuck, then frankly, I'm sorry, but you deserve everything you get.

Vigilance when shifting at the front is key, and if it's sucking as you're riding along, your maintenance is tosh, and quite possibly your chainlube too sticky.

Fitting a new chain to a worn chainset will result in worse suck still.

http://www.fagan.co.za/Bikes/Csuck/

Indenting a frame isn't hard and can make a difference if you're getting suck problems.

Posted 3 years ago #
john_l - Member

I swapped the 44t for a 40t ring on my Hummer which gave more clearance & a big difference to the problem. As others have said - it's not the frame causing it, it's just that it doesn't deal with it as well as a frame with greater clearance.

On the plus side - you've got plenty of tyre clearance ;o)

Posted 3 years ago #
brant - Member

a g-clamp and some bits of wood would work. In fact I think that's how Brant did his prototypes. "

I just hit it with a hammer.

Posted 3 years ago #
Stoner - Member

So often I credit class where there is none.

Posted 3 years ago #
Stoner - Member

nice work simon.

Maybve I was confusing your classy technique with Mr. Brant "farmer giles" Richards approach.

Posted 3 years ago #
racing_ralph - Member

woo - hero!!

(aimed at brant)

Posted 3 years ago #
brant - Member

So often I credit class where there is none.

You'll like this then... I think chainsuck on a bike is a bit like herpes. Once you've got it, it'll keep coming back.

Short chains, correct shifting, good chainlube... Not necessarily lots of maintenance (my 29er has the same profile chainstays and was positively abused but never sucked once, running Deore group).

Simon - you look to have done a good job there - though I'd not have bothered repainting in that area (as it'll just get scraped off by the chain when it sucks, no?

Posted 3 years ago #
Simon - Member

Brant, I've changed the chainrings since I had CS problems, from Truvativ alu ones to Deore steel, as well as puting the indent in.
And I've lost the chain a couple of times (not CS just dropped off the granny) and the paint has chipped, so the painting could have been a pointless exercise. I probably need to shorten the chain and/or fit a short cage rear mech.

Posted 3 years ago #
brant - Member

I think steel rings rock. When I get 5mins I'm going to do some nice simple steel rings without fancy shifting ramps and pins shit and see how I get on. Nowt more than cut down teeth.

Posted 3 years ago #
Simon - Member

I generally only use steel Deore rings but I got the 24/36 Truvativ ones cheap with a bash guard.

Posted 3 years ago #
nukeproof - Member

Excellent, that's the month of April's Inbred/chainsuck/"frames don't cause chainsuck" thread out the way then. Roll on May

Posted 3 years ago #
carlphillips - Member

brant, i have a lot of issues with chainsuck on my 456, replaced all drivechain chain is pretty short, lube is finishline green and new so not sticky (and no probs on any of my other bikes, 1st ride out fekkin chainsuck, my stay is pretty furked now, so im not sure its down to maintenance, and as for correct shifting i've no problems on any other bike ever..?
i love the 456, but the chainsuck is getting annoying and there doesnt seem to be any common denominator...?

maybe its time to break out the g clamp

Posted 3 years ago #
brant - Member

FMH. When is it sucking?

Posted 3 years ago #
carlphillips - Member

normally when shifting down to the granny (note not under load, and normally when it does i can pre empt it and stop it going all the way through) but has happened in middle ring for no apparent reason (and i've bent several chains), would a shorter cage mech sort that out then?

Posted 3 years ago #
2unfit2ride - Member

If you have a new drive train, then really it can only be the lube at fault?
Bike design accentuates a problem, but surely the problem is the underlying cause?

Posted 3 years ago #

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