I found 29er crests to be a bugger with all the tyres I tried but after getting advice on here using stans yellow rim strip solved the problem. All the other rim strips were too thick. When I got an Ardent on with the stans rim strip the tyre edge firmly in the middle of the wheel it set up nicely tubeless - Granted I had the benefit of a compressor. Since then the tyre seems to have stretched and I have no problem taking it on & off - same for a bonty xr4. It has been worth persevering with.
ARRRGGGHH BLOODY Stans BLOODY rims and CHUFFING Maxxis tyres
speedstar - Member
In my experience different combos of tyres with stans rims have all had their individual interaction with some being very easy to seat whilst others were a nightmare.
I'd just extend that to tubeless rims in general, I've had tyres that wouldn't go up on my 819s or rovals too.
Arch Ex with Ardent + tube - mine don't quite seat inflated at about 30 psi. Just ride them and they sort themselves out pronto. I haven't died.
I use Stans Crest rims , Stans yellow rim strip and a scoop or 2 of sealant. Maxxis tyres, blown up with co2 cartridge to get them seated, ride around a bit to get the sealant to spread then pumped up a few times over a few days with a normal hand pump to replace the c02. I've never ever had an issue/ puncture out on a ride in years.
They haven't designed the rims for tubes, they are designed for tubeless, using their sealant and rim strip but using normal tyres.
I have found Stans to be a revelation.
Aarrrggghhh. Reading and understanding FAIL.
I've tried tubeless. Twice I ripped tyres so badly they needed tubes, once the gunk had dried so I had to use a tube, and I dented one rim so badly it wouldn't hold air. Tubeless is not a magical panacaea, and I'm not really inclined to try it again until it's more reliable. I've never had any of those issues on the car, for instance...
Stans current rim designs appear to be aimed at non-tubeless ready tyres with slacker beads than many of the TLR etc tyres that most of us seem to favour these days. I returned a Crest wheel because I couldn't get a tube and Schwalbe tyre mounted for love nor money.
Ripping tyres is something that will render a tyre non-functional if it's large enough. I always carry a tube when tubeless in case of this but I don't think there is any higher a rate of tyre ripping with tubeless as opposed to tubed. Quite possibly the tyres involved were more vulnerable?
I have been running tubeless for 3 years. In that time I ripped one tyre to absolute shreds but that was because I hit a rock very hard whilst almost at 90 degrees to planet earth so I don't think even if I had been riding with tubes that anything other than what happened would have occurred. Nothing in mountain biking is a panacea but it's all too easy to label something as a problem when in reality it's just comparable to other ways of doing things. On the plus side I have not suffered a pinch puncture yet whilst my mate has had 2 on his new bike in 3 weeks of owning it!
Everything has a down side naturally and its not sensible to state otherwise.
nbt - Member
I've never had any of those issues on the car, for instance...
I expect I'd have problems with my car tyres if I was to drive it through a big rock garden at 30mph, though
I had big problems getting tyres (with tubes) on my Arch Ex wheels.
The good people here recommended purgatorys by specialized.
I got these on but they wouldn't seat properly, so this afternoon I left both tyres out in the sun, so that they were nice and warm, and then got the washing up liquid out.
With a bit of careful manipulation I now have 2 properly seated tyres. I thought the rear wasn't going on properly in a couple of spots so I pumped it up to 40 psi to push the beads out. I nipped indoors for something and the tyre seated itself while I was indoors.
Might be worth a punt with purgatorys, maybe, even if you just buy one for now. £30 gotta be better than new rims.
Got 26 FLOW on Hope hoops, running with tubes, and have had huge problems getting any of my Conti, Schwalbe, Maxxis tyres on. Similar tales of woe with biker colleagues. Lube, fairy liquid, teeth gnashing, thumb breaking, lever breaking experience. Not in a position to throw them away and get non Stans, but won't ever go for a Stans rim again.
but it would seem odd that a rim would be designed not to work with tubes?
Stans work by having a shallower rim bed to hook dist/depth than std rims and that helps UST tyres seal. It also makes seating a normal tyre and a tube a PITA in many cases ime. The tube doesn't apply even force to the tyre there in the same way as air does in a tubeless system. Maybe a very thin, well talced tube would work, but a normal one on a tyre with a load of dried sealant inside, unlikely. They're not really designed to work with tubes unless it's a better option than a cut tyre that won't seal.
I've got Flows and Maxxis or Conti USTs to seat with a tube in using a bit of dry lube but it's one of those things rarely needed, just for those occasional cuts that will flat any type of tyre.
Hey Jules, if you decide to sell the wheels, give me a shout - I might be after a pair.
My Hope hoops run on stans. I can remove and fit with one sweep of a maxxis tyre lever in seconds! NBT- sure you haven't flatted your rim at somepoint- turned the rim over itself slightly on rocks?
I dont run wire bead double ply though, only folding EXO's.
I can remove and fit tyres with my thumbs, I don't even need a lever - that's not the issue, it's getting the beads to seat when inflating that I have issue with. I accept of course that's it's entirely my fault for doing it wrong and using tubes on a tubeless only rim (althoug you can of course run a tube purely as a get-me-home fix).
I've been offered a couple of different 29er tyres to try both for fitting and for whether I like the tyres, so I'll see how they go before getting spendy on new wheels I think
I run tubes too- although I'm on 26'er so maybe different.
It's not a problem on the 26 flows - but the crests (26 and 29) can be properly stubborn
nbt - Member
I accept of course that's it's entirely my fault for doing it wrong and using tubes on a tubeless only rim,
Where did you get that from? There's no such thing as a tubeless only clincher.
Northwind dijo » Where did you get that from? There's no such thing as a tubeless only clincher.
being a bit melodramatic, perhaps
but reading through this thread, all I can see is people who haven;t rea the OP and are telling me how to seat tubeless tyres, or people saying I'm wrong for using tubes on a rim designed for tubeless
In a more serious vein, this post
jameso dijo »
Stans work by having a shallower rim bed to hook dist/depth than std rims and that helps UST tyres seal. It also makes seating a normal tyre and a tube a PITA in many cases ime. The tube doesn't apply even force to the tyre there in the same way as air does in a tubeless system.
does suggest that Stans rims are primarily designed to work tubeless - not to work with tubes as a default then improved to work tubeless
Arch EX 29 with Ardent 2.25 (summer) and Beaver 2.25 (winter), both tyre types fitted with tubes and no issues whatsoever?
Only ever needed levers to get the tyres off, will go on fine just with fingers once the bead is in the center of the rim channel. The Ardents "pop" on nicely I think the Beavers didnt but I deflated them to check the bead was properly located all the way round and been using them for over 8 months without issue.
both tyre types fitted with tubes ..... The Ardents "pop" on nicelyTo back my point about Stans rims design and tubes, that 'pop' doesn't happen when using tubes on std Mavic rims - it's the rim hook dims that makes that happen and it's the same thing that means other tyres with a fraction smaller bead diameter sit with a wobble. Or, tubes just don't have the even pressure to pop it into place.
Stretch them out a bit with another rim and higher pressures, use some moto-x bead cream, it'll help as it's very small tolerances that make a difference.
jameso - Member
To back my point about Stans rims design and tubes, that 'pop' doesn't happen when using tubes on std Mavic rims -
It can- I've had it with at least some of my mtb rims, couldn't tell you which ones but probably the 717s or 721s. And my Open Sports definitely do it
In general it's normal for TL rims and not normal for std hook rims, based on dimensions of the TL rims, was more the point. Never had it on any std rims here that I rememeber but surely it can happen with the right tyre and rim combo, they all vary enough.
Tried getting a road tyre onto a deep rim??? Fack!!!
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