Mr Armstrong has been formally charged with doping by the us anti doping agency. They must have some good evidence or is it a witch hunt … discuss

Who gives a shit anymore? Are they going to award all his TDFs to the second place rider? Are they going to be witch hunted as well?

You have to go a long way further than 2nd place……

Been done to death you either hate him or you don’t like turning your bike upside down

Thats my point exactly! Where does the medal stop? We all know the top ten are doping so who gives a shit.

i don’t really care anymore, not that i see it as a witch hunt though just that there’s never going to be a satisfactory resolution. The two outcomes:
1. Armstrong is convicted and stripped of all titles. He still goes to the grave shouting about it being a witch hunt and protesting his innocence.
2. Armstrong is acquitted. There’s a nasty taste in everyone’s mouth as the mud as been slung and the trial never got far enough for a conviction as he got some high powered friends involved.

You forgot to add 3. A brave (but sometimes abrasive) mans achievements are tarnished.

Didn’t we do this several weeks ago?

I know.

What? He didn’t go to the moon? ?

I would have thought that the Armstrong defence is quite obvious, there are two options.
1) Ignore the authority, bang on about whether the prosecution have any experience of riding bikes or riding the Tour. If they don’t label their comments “piffle” and simply ignore it, demanding evidence of their experience. If they bang on about this long enough the prosecution team is likely to give up out of boredom or someone will close the case.
2) If found guilty, simply claim that he was doing it to highlight the problems and that it was all a bit of a joke from the start.
It might convince someone, if only himself. 😀

He likes guns.
He definitely has access to a time machine.
JFK didn’t shoot himself, now did he?

Just saying like….

Elvis.
From the grassy knoll.

Obvious when you think about it.

If he’s found guilty, 50% of people will think it’s a set up; if he’s aquitted, 50% of people will think it’s a cop out. Win/win? Lose/lose?? Accusations, new evidence, conspiracy theories, excuses… they’ll be around for the rest of his life now.

Has it been specifically timed to coincide with the start of the tour?

I’ve always been an Armstrong fan, his achievements with or without the prior cancer were amazing. I’d be disappointed if he is subsequently found to have doped, but they’d still be amazing achievements. You could dope me to the stars and I’d never be able to do what he did. And if true it’s not as if everyone else was clean and he’s stolen the titles as a result.

That said, equally I’m not too young to be cynical enough to think that there’s no smoke without fire.

I’m just disappointed that this seems to have been timed politically to coincide with when there will be a lot of interest in road racing. Maybe to bring attention to the fact it’s prtobably still going on; but to me I don’t think it adds to the expectation that he will get a fair hearing free of media pronouncements before the case is even heard.

Armstrong probably doped as a) there is a lot of circumstantial evidence, and b) it’s hard to believe he was riding clean when most of his close rivals and teammates were on the sauce. I think he’s not helped himself by having a ‘difficult’ personality.

I honestly don’t see what will be gained by stripping him of any of his wins if there’s enough evidence to convict – presenting the yellow jersey to Schleck for the 2010 TdF was a bad joke, as it didn’t remove Contador’s presence (and the tactical decisions that resulted) from the race. I would leave the results as they are but star them.

3. A brave (but sometimes abrasive) mans achievements are tarnished.

They’re already pretty tarnished. FWIW I’m not honestly sure what dragging Armstrong (and undoubtedly former team-mates incl. Hincapie/Zabriskie etc. etc.) through the mud will achieve, but banning that odious man Bruyneel from the sport would seem a worthwhile outcome if the allegations are true.

Andy

They all dope. Whether they get caught depends on how good their doctor is.

what samurai said…hopefully sai dint he past tense though

you either hate him or you don’t

I think his achievements were amazing and he is without doubt the best cyclist of the recent era by some distance
he is still IMHO a doper – no way did could he/anyone beat those athletes who were doped whilst clean no one is that good.

The tour was better when they had no team radios, no dope tests, 300km+ stages, there wasn’t a lot of tarmac on the road and cheating was wacky-races moves like jumping on a train or thin tow-lines attached to cars, held in the rider’s teeth. Drinking copious amounts of wine and brandy was normal and ‘tashes weren’t seen to be an aerodynamic disadvantage. Good single-speeders did ok in the mountains too.

It’s all got a bit sporty since then. Bring back the Real Tour! Like the TDR but in France. That would be awesome.

edit, Oh yes. Armstrong. Who cares. He wasn’t as cool as big Jan and Vino used his dope for much more exciting moves – that champs elysees break was utterly brilliant.

Volvo for sale

What gets me is Armstrong always says “i never failed a dope test” which is very different to “i never doped”.

Didn’t we do this several weeks ago?

Haven’t we done this every few weeks for about the last 10 years?

It’s the start of the Tour. It’s de rigeur for there to be a doping story in the press about now. Usually on the Thursday preceding the Tour start.

They were all doing it and he never got caught so why the witch hunt? It doesn’t really matter, he was the best of the doped rider era – end of.

never failed a dope test, thats what Bjarne always said as well.

It’s the start of the Tour. It’s de rigeur for there to be a doping story in the press about now. Usually on the Thursday preceding the Tour start.

You mean like this one?

No proof, no facts, just rumour. Well **** off then. Newspapers and media ruin peoples lives -.-

I thought the USDA statement included allegations that blood samples taken were consistent with doping, seems a bit stronger than the usual hearsay that gets levelled against him.

“They argue their client is unable to mount a legitimate defence until he is able to see the evidence against him, though USADA has said it is withholding witness identities to protect them from intimidation”

And two annoucement to co inside with the tour getting under way. So no agenda then.

The evidence so far point at test samples from the 2009 tour where is
blood levels peaked on test days, odd yes. But not unheard off.
But those levels do not exceed the limits, so no rule broken. No phyiscal evidence found, so no rule broken.
If he is guilty do him proper don’t piss about. If they have got something really good on him why hold back?

Hi all as a former road rider this problem has been a round for a long time,Drugs in cycling has aways been about its just that we are getting better at catchin these cheats now. There have been times that i was tested and some at random at certain races in the mid 80s and im sure some of the samples never reach the labs. Then the use of masking agents came a long then the rumours that the US team were doing blood doping at the LA olympics. We just have to look at some of the names who have had 2 year dopeing bans and are now back in the peloton.Have a look at former Irish pro Paul Kimmage now working for the sunday times interviewing Armstrong at the TOC on youtube or Greg Lemond with Armstrong i think at the TOC as well.And see what you think

I’m annoyed about the timing of it, if Usada want any credibility in the way they go about investigating such charges then theyd be better off making their decisions public when they’ve reached the conclusion to prosecute, not when the tour is about to start……be the bigger party and leave politics out of it.

Ostrichtrackworld….

Ostrichtrackworld….

😀

Just to absolutely clear here, I’ve never failed a dope test.

Lance is a Hero, He’s single handedly beaten France 7 times and is it’s tour race most winningest cycle ride champion in history, he beat cancer 7 times which really shows some balls, he’s going to beat the charlatans who think he doped, the only dope he took is ‘Lance’ because he’s stronger than any drug.

god bless America.

…but its quite clear he hasn’t got a sense of humour.

I’m going to wait and see what happens then make up my mind about what I think of Armstrong, strange how they keep going after him though so no smoke without fire. He’s pi$$ed some people off at the top for the us anti doping agency to go after an American sporting hero. Are the mighty really that mighty 😕

I’m going to wait and see what happens then make up my mind about what I think of Armstrong, strange how they keep going after him though so no smoke without fire.

there’s plenty of info in books and on the web that would go some way to explain why a lot of people in cycling are 100% convinced he doped. everything from test results being hushed up, intimidation of riders/journalists/people in authority, and the known dopers/suppliers/doctors he associated with etc.
not to mention the shady business/legal/funding/donation goings on that are part of the LA self promotion machine.

if you follow the saga right from the beginning (inc the lance/landis/LeMond story + Ashenden) the evidence is compelling.

the man in the street just see’s a cancer beating hero, those in the know see something else.

From the last discussion, here’s USADA’s statement:

USADA only initiates matters supported by the evidence. We do not choose whether or not we do our job based on outside pressures, intimidation or for any reason other than the evidence. Our duty on behalf of clean athletes and those that value the integrity of sport is to fairly and thoroughly evaluate all the evidence available and when there is credible evidence of doping, take action under the established rules.
As in every USADA case, all named individuals are presumed innocent of the allegations unless and until proven otherwise through the established legal process. If a hearing is ultimately held then it is an independent panel of arbitrators, not USADA that determines whether or not these individuals have committed anti-doping rule violations as alleged.

Very straightforward. No agenda, no conspiracy, just due process for a case of alleged doping. USADA are doing their job and we just have to wait for the outcome.

Didnt the FBI do “their job” before them ?

Or does the agency rely on justifyung theid existance to the funding bodies and a “high profile case” shows they are ” worth it”???

Hora, here’s something for you to clutch at.

This is perhaps the most convincing reason why it is important to go after Armstrong…

From http://cyclismas.com/2012/06/lance-armstrongs-business-links-a-flowchart-by-dimspace/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=lance-armstrongs-business-links-a-flowchart-by-dimspace