It would appear that Welsh MP’s (AM’s) are to vote on the culling of 1000’s of badgers to attempt to prevent the spread of bovine TB. This has been proved not to prevent the spread of bovine TB. As cyclists we use the countryside a hell of alot, do we wish to see its wildlife murdered by a few misguided (I hesitate to use this word)people?. Can I draw your attention to an open letter to the Welsh parliament at http://www.brianmay.com/whatsnew.html. Think about it.

kill em all, nasty big monochrome rats.

This has been proved not to prevent the spread of bovine TB

Where?

hold up…… is this realated in any way to the Female Genitalia thread?

I don’t agree with the cull, but as with fourbanger above I’d be interested to see your proof for TB not being connected to badgers.

kill em all, nasty big monochrome rats.

That was quicker than I expected.

Yeah badgers are vermin, evil, thieves, lazy, scrounging, steal our jobs, take our women, can’t speak proper english, and sexually promiscuous.

Won’t somebody think of us badger-tossers?

Are you in C_G’s club Deadly ?

How far can you throw one ?

Brian, come on you can afford a better website than that, it is truly woeful. Oh and get a hair cut man.

Badgers are satans minions SCIENTIFIC FACT!

How far can you throw one ?

Depends on the age. Different competitions use different age and sex. My current record is 25 yards for a three year old. I don’t go for those competitions where they use dead ones.

Are Welsh MP’s voting to murder 1000’s of badgers

Another rational argument…..

Where is the badger don’t spread TB Evidence
DEFRA
Report by a Clever Man
No obviously these are both wrong….

Where is the badger don’t spread TB Evidence

You didn’t read the OP properly :

“This has been proved not to prevent the spread of bovine TB”

Check it out, I think you’ll find that’s correct.

EDIT : I mean check out the facts of course …. not the OP.

Read the article
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/tb/isg/report/final_report.pdf

The ISG’s work – most of which has already been published in peer-reviewed scientific
journals – has reached two key conclusions. First, while badgers are clearly a source of
cattle TB, careful evaluation of our own and others’ data indicates that badger culling can
make no meaningful contribution to cattle TB control in Britain

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/corporate/migratedD/ec_group/44-07-S_I_on

but killing badgers keeps the farmers on side, farmers vote, badgers don’t.

Don’t mention the consequences of transporting, knowingly or unknowingly, infected animals around because that never happens and doesn’t reinfect farms, ever.

Mushroom Mushroom

If yes, then it’ll be a case of Abrockalypse Now!

Why do dead badger always lie on their backs, everyone ive ever seen is lying on its back, dead, sadly.

Lovely creatures.

Abrockalypse Now

😀

Hate the idea of culling them, love that joke.

TJ – from the report you linked to in your post above:

Differences from conclusions in ISG report
41. At paragraph 10.92 of their final report the ISG states that “badger culling cannot meaningfully contribute to the control of cattle TB in Britain”. However, the data do not support such an unqualified conclusion.

Conclusions
51. In our view a programme for the removal of badgers could make a significant contribution to the control of cattle TB in those areas of England where there is a high and persistent incidence of TB in cattle, provided removal takes places alongside an effective programme of cattle controls.

I think you may have shot your own fox Sir…

There is no single solution to tackling bovine TB – we need to use every
tool in the toolbox

5. The Government is committed to putting in place a balanced package of
measures to tackle bovine TB.
6. Bovine TB is predominantly a disease of cattle but can affect a range of
species; there is a significant reservoir of infection in badgers. The
disease is transmitted between cattle, between badgers, and between
the two species.
7. Cattle measures will continue to be central to our bovine TB control
programme but we will not succeed in eliminating the disease in cattle
unless we also tackle the disease in badgers. No other country in the
world has managed to eradicate bovine TB in cattle without addressing
the reservoir of the disease in wildlife.

Badger culling and vaccination both have a role to play

Zulu =- just look at it. Th bit I posted is the main conclusion from the final report if the committee of scientists who were tasked with looking into it.

I don’t know what you are quoting. as you don’t provide a link

Its proven that systematic badger culling has no significant effect and the piecemeal culling that is going to happen in Wales actually spreads TB.

Proven fact.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMtcqfQNd2Y[/video]

Well if you had read the link Zulu-Eleven, you would have seen that badger culling is not the solution. According to the link 60% of TB cases in cattle does not originate from badgers. Furthermore, the only contribution that badgers make to TB in cattle is, that they themselves catch TB from cattle, and they then pass it on to new herds in their travels. So even of there was not a single badger in the British Isles, cattle would still have TB – it just would spread at a slower rate. The solution therefore is not to cull badgers, but to eradicate TB from cattle.

I don’t know what you are quoting. as you don’t provide a link

TJ – you posted the following link

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/corporate/migratedD/ec_group/44-07-S_I_on

I pointed you to paragraph 41 and para 51 of the report that you posted a link to.

Perhaps you should have read it before posting it!

proven fact

No, its proven that the culling regime used in the RBCT was ineffective, if you read the report that you posted a link to, it comprehensively undermines your claim!

Lets read the conclusions once again, the conclusions of the report that TJ posted a link to

Conclusions
51. In our view a programme for the removal of badgers could make a significant contribution to the control of cattle TB in those areas of England where there is a high and persistent incidence of TB in cattle, provided removal takes places alongside an effective programme of cattle controls.

Fail

Ah – I gave you the wrong link. I had several; publications open

This is the definitive study of the evidence to date.
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/tb/isg/report/final_report.pdf

culling does not work. this is the conclusion of a large scale independent scientific review following extensive trials. this is the section in the conclusions on badger culling

(iii) Recommendations and Conclusions
General Conclusions
1. On the basis of our careful review of all currently available evidence, we conclude
that badger culling is unlikely to contribute positively, or cost effectively, to the control of
cattle TB in Britain (10.48 and 10.92).
2. We conclude that there is substantial scope for improvement of control of the
disease through the application of heightened control measures directly targeting cattle.
Therefore, we recommend that priority should be given to developing policies based on
more rigorous application of control measures to cattle, in the absence of badger culling
(10.57 and 10.93).
Options involving badger management
3. It is highly unlikely that reactive culling – as practised in the RBCT – could
contribute other than negatively to future TB control strategies (10.3 – 10.4).
4. Proactive culling – as practised in the RBCT – is unlikely to contribute effectively
to the future control of cattle TB (10.5 – 10.7).
Adaptations of proactive culling
5. Improvements in culling efficiency are unlikely to generate benefits substantially
greater than those recorded in the RBCT (10.10 – 10.14).
6. Different configurations of culling operation, alternative to that used in the RBCT,
would confer no advantage and could lead to further detrimental effects (10.15).
7. Culling over larger areas would be unlikely to develop net benefits in economic
terms (10.16 – 10.18).
8. Areas with boundaries impermeable to badgers could contribute to TB control only
on a local scale, as few areas exist with appropriate natural boundaries (10.19 – 10.21).
9. Culling in areas adjoining land with low or zero TB risk is likely to achieve no
greater overall benefits than the RBCT (10.22 – 10.23).
10. Preventing re-colonisation by destroying setts is likely to involve high costs and the
potential benefits appear small (10.24).
Adaptations of reactive culling
11. Improving culling efficiency is very unlikely to generate overall beneficial effects
from localised culling (10.25 – 10.26).
12. Reactive culling over larger areas is unlikely to generate overall benefits for the
control of cattle TB (10.27).
13. Repeated reactive culling is likely to increase, rather than decrease, the detrimental
effect associated with localised culling (10.28).
14. Reactive culling conducted more rapidly after detection of infection in cattle offers
little promise of an effective control strategy for cattle TB (10.29 – 10.31).
24
Culling badgers under licence
15. Culling badgers under licence not only could fail to achieve a beneficial effect,
but could increase the incidence of cattle TB and increase the geographical spread of the
disease, irrespective of whether licences were issued to individual farmers or to groups
(10.33 – 10.36).
Other approaches to badger culling
16. Culling in response to detection of infection in road-killed badgers may not target
areas of high cattle TB risk and is likely to generate the detrimental effect of reactive
culling (10.38).
17. Selective culling of infected badgers is very unlikely to reduce the prevalence of M.
bovis infection in badgers substantially and might increase overall infection rates (10.39
– 10.42).
18. Culling of ‘hospital setts’ is a highly speculative approach appearing to have little
or nothing to contribute to future control strategies (10.43).
19. Badger culling combined with vaccination is likely to reduce any advantage gained
by vaccination (10.44).
Approaches to badger management other than culling
20. Separating cattle and badgers by badger-proof fencing might occasionally be
appropriate for some farms. More generally, common sense measures could be applied in
some circumstances to keep badgers out of buildings and feed stores. We recommend that
research effort into ways of keeping badgers and cattle apart be continued (10.49 – 10.56).

Ah – I gave you the wrong link.

Hahahahahaha – indeed, you posted a link to the report in which the Governments Chief Scientific Advisor says:

As the Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser I have considered, with the experts listed below, the ISG report and other scientific evidence relating to badgers and TB in cattle. This report summarises my conclusions and is intended to help Defra in reaching policy decisions.

See, this was written after the report that you claim is the definitive knowledge to date.

The fact is that the report you linked to specifically and comprehensively debunks your own claims TJ

the report you posted a link to claims that removal of badgers could make a significant contribution to the control of cattle TB

Which is the complete opposite of what you said!

Why don’t you now sit down with a biscuit and read the report you linked to!

poor ole badgers, does vaccination not work,

Scraprider – yes it does – if you vaccinate the cows that give TB to teh badgers

TJ, you seem to have missed Zulu’s post above.

Bloody cows giving nice badgers TB, shoot the cows. 😈

I don’t believe that anyone can say for sure how best to deal with TB issue. never made clear why vaccination won’t work. I do think most people have missed the point however. Last year 40,000 cows were culled due to TB. Are they really less valuable than 1,000, or even 40,000 badgers? If so how? Badgers are protected so highly due to badger baiting in the 1970s but this barbaric sport would not come back even if badgers were less protected as its a demographic trend past its day. Why are badgers as protected as Golden Eagles, Ospreys or Otters? Bonkers.

So what are you going do when you have killed every single badger in Britain and there is still TB amongst cattle Zulu-Eleven ?

Learn to live with it ? Find other ways of controlling and eradicating it – like vaccination ?

Well how about going directly to those options now ? Rather than the simple knee-jerk reaction, which ultimately, is not a solution.

Why are badgers as protected as Golden Eagles, Ospreys or Otters? Bonkers.

Because they are one of our indigenous species. Nothing “bonkers” about it. We have already done enough damage to our wildlife in Britain. The world’s beautiful and varied mosaic of species is what makes life exciting and interested …… and our planet so special. I don’t want to live in a man-made sterile environment. And I am not alone.

After centuries of trashing our planet and its natural wildlife, it is time to start making amends. Sadly in many cases it will too late.

Very poor straw man argument Ernie!

Where does anyone suggest in any way that the answer is to kill every single badger in Britain?

They don’t, do they? Your post is entirely specious

So what are you going do when you have killed every single badger in Britain and there is still TB amongst cattle Zulu-Eleven ?

The point isn’t to eliminate all badgers. High herd numbers increases pressure for food. Food can be found on farms, which causes badgers to be more likely to come into contact with cattle. The result can be contamination of cattle with TB from infected badgers. Reducing badger numbers, reduces pressure for food, reduces contact, reduces contamination.

What leads you to think this is a knee jerk reaction?

Where does anyone suggest in any way that the answer is to kill every single badger in Britain?

They don’t, do they? Your post is entirely specious

If the solution is culling badgers because they are responsible for TB in cattle, then the logical conclusion is no badgers no TB.

Of course badgers are not cause of TB in cattle, so I gave you an extreme example to highlight that another solution needs to be found.

Too difficult to work out what I was getting at eh ?

🙄

Is your wooly thinking deliberate?